£ Cali Residuals now the PV5 etc are here

[Chriskend]

Stick 800w+ on the roof that charges the main battery for added range, make it a 6 mtr + van and I’m in.

 

[Mr B]

Sorry can't link or edit but it's here:

Love the carpet stuck to various parts.... Quality!


Also if I was to consider a Kia I would go for the larger PV7 (which isn't actually that large) but has more range and is a great base for spacious camper.

Hopefully Kia release a camper module for it.

The Kia PV7 World Premiere

The Kia PV7 expands space and versatility for cargo and long-distance driving — a business solution that eases everyday friction and evolves with time.

www.kia.com

 

[Aubisque]

Add to the diff lock "icing", the cherries of an 80 litre tank (which strangely the configurator didn't offer Joe Public as an option with 4Motion) and adaptive suspension.

It’s because it puts it overweight. Same reason you can’t configure a fifth seat with 4M.

 

[egena]

My take;
The PV5 is a great vehicle for short to mid-range travel and will absolutely be used as a daily driver like the california, with its roughly 80 mile reliable radius (80 there, 80 back). Has loads of space and a very reasonable 1.93m height so is carpark friendly, similar to the 1.96m T6 (2.03m T6.1)

I thought it best to list everything we love about the VW transporter and compare it with rhe PV5 in particular;

Feature	Notes	California	PV5
Range - Daily Driver (There and back)	Average car journey is 20-40 miles	200 miles	80-100 miles
Range - Camping Trip (longest ongoing range)	Average holiday journey 80-200 miles	450 miles	190-220 miles
Height		1.96m (T6) 2.02m (T6.1)	1.92m (H1 standard roof with no pop-top)
Weight		2140kg (full and complete campervan with full tank and driver)	1900kg (H1 base vehicle with no camping conversion)
Available Payload (how much more it can carry)		910kg	710kg (so any camper conversion needs to sit within this and usually can be around 200-400kg)
Living space battery power endurance with 2000w induction hob boiling water (set to a high heat)		90 minutes (Dedicated leisure batteries) This assumes no use of solar panels or running the engine to top them up.	20 hours (Vehicle battery itself is used for all power to the living area) It would be 27 hours but the on-board systems ensure 20% battery remains for vehicle driving
Purchase Price		£86,000 (T7 2026) £62,000 (T6.1 2024) £45,000 (T6 2017) (all are 4Motion models)	£30,000 (H1 2026 with 71.2kwh battery) £20,000 (additional Camper conversion cost) £68,000 (Luxury Sussex Campervan Conversion)
Fuel		Diesel (Engine and living space heating) Propane (Hobs) LifePo4/LeadAcid (Leisure Batteries)	71.2kwh vehicle battery pack (Long range version)
Fuel cost		£160 (full 80 litre tank at around £1.70p/Litre) 450 mile range (60mph)	£24 - Home charging £7 - Home charging off-peak (overnight) £35 - Workplace/public charger £65 - Motorway DC fast charger service station This assume 0%-100% charging whereas usually one charges up from around 10% to 80%, going up to 100% only for long journeys.
Average Service costs (Lifetime)		£20,000	£10,000-£12,000
Average Service Cost (Intervals)		£2,500 Oil, oil filter, air filters, cabin filters, coolant, auxilary belt, timing belt, tensioners, aircon re-gas, water pump, hoses	£1000 Battery coolant, water pump, hoses,Cabin Filters, Aircon re-gas
Average Tyre cost		£100 (17") (235/55 R17)	£85 (16" 215/65 R16)

 

[egena]

Summary;

The PV5 is an excellent vehicle. It can outclass our beautiful Californias in many aspects, especially cost of ownership, but its simplicity of use also comes with its lack of heritage. It wont have double-glazing, luxurious living space integrated blinds and has a single point of energy; the vehicles main battery pack.

I personally cant wait to move to electric as it really will massively simplify camping when we only have to charge our vehicle and everything else just works from the gigantic battery slung underneath. It really does last a huge amount of time off-grid and would happily sip an electric hookup, allowing the real loads of cooking etc to be absorbed by the vehicles battery inverter.
So, aside from residual resale value guess-work, the things really to think about, for me, is the individual use case.

Average weekend camping - utterly beats the california in overall cost. Charging is available almost everywhere (even remote scotland) and an overnight plug-in to a normal 3-pin plug socket or EHU works really well in a pinch.
Fishing weekends - Again, really excels in this area and has a very capable towing capacity for a small boat
Long journey holidays - (Mostly me) The California wins in this category as it has a very versatile energy system for all weather types and terrain. Its 4WD is solid and Diesel still wins in cold climates as lithium really doesn't enjoy temperatures below 0c. Norway has an amazing EV adoption but all EV owners are well aware of the shortened range due to self-heating battery packs and the reduced overall performance of lithium at lower temperatures, so choose their cars carefully. An EV camper isn't as efficient as a standard EV saloon, yet.

For me, I will be hanging on to my 2017 T6 4Motion for another 3-5 years awaiting the evolution of batteries. There are very real geopolitical arguments for switching to electric right now, as Diesel has just popped over £2 a litre, so its tempting to pick up a "cheap" £30,000 empty van and sling a mattress in it and a little box containing my induction hob and a portable sink, however there is some really exciting movement on sulphur batteries and is looking to change the range/charging limitations permanently

 

[RichardH]

I'm toying with sinking £80k into a PHEV Cali, but obviously have my worries.

In 2019 I sold an 2017 Ocean thinking that residuals were about to tank and I clearly got that spectacularly wrong!

My logic then and somewhat now is that Calis retain values so well because they have such a long serviceable life and they only evolve gradually, giving 30+ years of demand easily. But electric vehicles were on the horizon, even if useable vans were a long way off.

But now the Kia PV5 (and now the 7) is here and the timetable to viability looks different

I'd speculate the next Cali will be electric, or they'll be a fully electric model, not just a PHEV. If that's right, how will diesel, petrol and PHEV Calis look even 15 years down the line, and what will that do for residuals?

The new Cali PHEV suits my current needs very nicely, but I'm aware it's likely never likely to garner the same love that the previous (fully 'T') models did. Might it get squeezed between the loved T4,5,6 and the next fully electric model?

I'd be interested in your thoughts. I don't need any "just get on with your life" advice. I'm doing that, I'm just curious about this thought experiment.

I was perfectly happy with my Golf GTE PHEV, bought new in 2017, mileage only about 35k and still immaculate. I had assumed it would be as reliable as my T5.1 Cali, bought new in early 2014, mileage now 125k. I had hoped that, with luck, both might last another 5 or 6 years, by which time my wife and I will both be 80 and maybe not driving so much. That's probably a reasonable expectation for the Cali. But earlier this year the GTE suddenly became completely undrivable following failure of the mechatronic unit. The replacement part is very expensive and it needs a highly qualified technician to fit it, because of the high voltage circuitry. It is in a difficult-to-access part of the engine compartment and the work is labour intensive. It's fixed now, but it cost me over £6,200. I expect it would have been even more expensive at a main dealer, bringing into question whether repair or scrap it. I now understand that these mechatronic failures are now a recognised issue in VW Group PHEV engines of this age. Since 2017 VW have replaced the troublesome DQ400e component and it is hoped that this will help. But it is too soon to tell. It remains a much more complex engine than a standard petrol / diesel and there is potentially a lot more to go wrong. "Which" reports that PHEVs have the worst reliability record of all engine types. I had previously been toying with the idea of a PHEV Cali, but no longer!

 

[hirsty]

interesting original question, though clearly unknowable …

I’m very interested in the KIA PVs, but think the 5 maybe too small & the (announced) 7 LWB too long - maybe the (forthcoming) 7 Compact will be the sweet spot? if I had the space / money I’d also fancy a Sprinter-based Hymer …

I’m sitting tight with my early ‘65-plate T6 Beach as it does everything I need & has been a bargain at £42K pre-registered new before prices went bonkers. I’d be really torn if I were looking at new options north of £80K with any urgency.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Clearly if you need to get to the South of France for a 10 day holiday, then an electric camper will be further away.

Keep any thoughts coming

I’m currently planning 2 EV trips with our 250 mile range. Norfolk and the Alps. The French one is looking all very doable and straightforward. Norfolk on the other hand is looking pretty tricky. V few fast chargers in towns and villages.

All French and Spanish campsites we visited this summer were full of EVs.

Octopus has just cut our overnight rate to 3.4pence a kWh. Our large BMW EV does 3.4 miles per kWh. That’s 1 pence per mile. The Cali costs £15 just for us to pullout into ULEZ traffic ! That’s 1,500 miles in the EV!

I can see the logic of PHEVs but I’m glad we skipped one. Complicated engineering.

 

[egena]

I’m currently planning 2 EV trips with our 250 mile range. Norfolk and the Alps. The French one is looking all very doable and straightforward. Norfolk on the other hand is looking pretty tricky. V few fast chargers in towns and villages.

All French and Spanish campsites we visited this summer were full of EVs.

Octopus has just cut our overnight rate to 3.4pence a kWh. Our large BMW EV does 3.4 miles per kWh. That’s 1 pence per mile. The Cali costs £15 just for us to pullout into ULEZ traffic ! That’s 1,500 miles in the EV!

I can see the logic of PHEVs but I’m glad we skipped one. Complicated engineering.

This is such a useful perspective. Overnight charging at 3.4p is effectively driving around 300 miles for £5 vs £80 for the same distance using diesel, at the moment.

 

[FivetonesCali]

I’m currently planning 2 EV trips with our 250 mile range. Norfolk and the Alps. The French one is looking all very doable and straightforward. Norfolk on the other hand is looking pretty tricky. V few fast chargers in towns and villages.

All French and Spanish campsites we visited this summer were full of EVs.

Octopus has just cut our overnight rate to 3.4pence a kWh. Our large BMW EV does 3.4 miles per kWh. That’s 1 pence per mile. The Cali costs £15 just for us to pullout into ULEZ traffic ! That’s 1,500 miles in the EV!

I can see the logic of PHEVs but I’m glad we skipped one. Complicated engineering.

Looking at zapmap I’d say the charging network in Norfolk is sufficient. What am I missing?

 

[chockswahay]

Octopus has just cut our overnight rate to 3.4pence a kWh.

Eh? How? I thought the cheapest rate is 7p/kW overnight (which is still cheap)

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Eh? How? I thought the cheapest rate is 7p/kW overnight (which is still cheap)

Ours was 7p but I looked 2 days ago and they’ve quietly halved it!

 

[Lambeth Cali]

My favourite fun fact is I don’t have a charger for my 74kWh EV. I charge at home on the drive using the 3 pin plug in the garage!
But that must take ages I hear you cry! Yep about 6 hours 60-80%. But on Octopus Intelligent Go the whole house is 3.49p per kWh. Been doing that for 3 years.
The slower you charge, the better!

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Looking at zapmap I’d say the charging network in Norfolk is sufficient. What am I missing?

Good shout. I’ll look at Zapmap. I was using Googlemaps and Chargemap. All fast chargers seemed 15 minutes drive away.

I’ve only ever plugged in away from home twice!! Not v experienced.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

This is such a useful perspective. Overnight charging at 3.4p is effectively driving around 300 miles for £5 vs £80 for the same distance using diesel, at the moment.

My Cali is a 174 5 cylinder from 2008. It’s £3 in the EV or well over £100 in the VW!
Ratio used to be 15-1 but now 30-1.

 

[larrylamb]

Ours was 7p but I looked 2 days ago and they’ve quietly halved it!
View attachment 152154

That's incredible rates, I've just had a look and what's on offer is a lot higher especially the day rate. Are you on an old deal that's continued at that rate or will yours be increasing soon? Cheers

 

[chockswahay]

My favourite fun fact is I don’t have a charger for my 74kWh EV. I charge at home on the drive using the 3 pin plug in the garage!
But that must take ages I hear you cry! Yep about 6 hours 60-80%. But on Octopus Intelligent Go the whole house is 3.49p per kWh. Been doing that for 3 years.
The slower you charge, the better!

Me too, however don't forget you get the whole house at cheap rate for 6 hours whether you charge the car or not. We are on a legacy rate at 7p overnight and 30p during the day. I am very jealous of your 3.49p rate!

 

[egena]

tempted to pick up a cheap BMW i3 until diesel calms down a bit!

 

[Kernowboy]

I moved over to EDF from Octopus recently, you can fix for 18mths at 6.66p per kWh for the overnight rate and get guaranteed 7hrs for whole house vice 6 with Octopus. Plus same smart charging benefits and £5 credit per month on top for going smart. Lots of free electric sessions at the weekends too, and you avoid the 6hr charging cap that Octopus have introduced which was the killer blow for us with 2 EVs to charge.
Worth a look and if you use my referral code you’ll get £75 credit until 6 Oct, or £50 credit after that. My bills have dropped massively.

Join EDF with my referral link and you'll get £75 while I get £100. https://edfenergy.com/quote/refer-a-friend/good-meadow-5623

 

[2into1]

Ladies and gentlemen, could we get my thread back on track?

 

[Kernowboy]

Ladies and gentlemen, could we get my thread back on track?

Sure. My view, for what it’s worth - the Multivan Cali is a niche product in a niche market ie. It works well for some but not the majority of the target market. It doesn’t appear to have sold well, thus big discounts and previous models holding value well. Hybrid is also a niche market, it excels neither as an ice or Ev. So a double compromise if you like.
The Kia’s look to be a large step in the right direction, but only a step not the final destination. Again a significant compromise on range and/or payload.
I think the Multivan Cali is a stop gap until the tech is there for a practical full on EV Cali, I think residuals could break the ‘norm’ and drop like a stone and I personally wouldn’t consider sinking £80k into one. I would much prefer yo keep a 6.1 until a better option comes along, or look to a T7 (or Transit) conversion to fill the gap.
You asked for opinions, and that is mine. There will of course be conflicting views.

 

[2into1]

I was a bit behind the developments on trucks. This was well timed by YouTube's algorithm

 

[chockswahay]

I was a bit behind the developments on trucks. This was well timed by YouTube's algorithm

I think you have just gifted all here to go right off track with that one!

 

[Lambeth Cali]

tempted to pick up a cheap BMW i3 until diesel calms down a bit!

That was our first EV. One of my favourite ever cars.

 

[sidepod]

I wonder if you’re looking for a unicorn?

Personally I don’t get the obsession with PHEV MHEV, Elec whatever these things are, I’ve never paid any attention.

Experience so far suggests anything elec depreciates massively.

The 6.1 seems to be holding its value very well.
Way up the cost of fuel against depreciation for however long you plan to own it.

At the risk of getting excommunicated or run out of town, there are some pretty cool small caravans out there , is that at opsh?