£ Cali Residuals now the PV5 etc are here

[2into1]

I'm toying with sinking £80k into a PHEV Cali, but obviously have my worries.

In 2019 I sold an 2017 Ocean thinking that residuals were about to tank and I clearly got that spectacularly wrong!

My logic then and somewhat now is that Calis retain values so well because they have such a long serviceable life and they only evolve gradually, giving 30+ years of demand easily. But electric vehicles were on the horizon, even if useable vans were a long way off.

But now the Kia PV5 (and now the 7) is here and the timetable to viability looks different

I'd speculate the next Cali will be electric, or they'll be a fully electric model, not just a PHEV. If that's right, how will diesel, petrol and PHEV Calis look even 15 years down the line, and what will that do for residuals?

The new Cali PHEV suits my current needs very nicely, but I'm aware it's likely never likely to garner the same love that the previous (fully 'T') models did. Might it get squeezed between the loved T4,5,6 and the next fully electric model?

I'd be interested in your thoughts. I don't need any "just get on with your life" advice. I'm doing that, I'm just curious about this thought experiment.

 

[sidepod]

You’re clearly in some pain right now so let’s look at the evidence?

You’ve owned enough Calis to know what they are and how they behave.

You’ve read enough arguments and punch ups about the configuration of the 7.

I believe the daft layout of the 7 will do your head in very quickly.

It’s my opinion, and I’ll happily place a bet here and now, the next Gen of Cali (assuming VW still exists?) will be a return to the tried and tested configuration.

(Existing 7 owners, look away now!)
If the above comes true then the 7 will become a niche “ugly duckling” nobody wants.

FWIW, I don’t think in our camping lifetime diesel supply/price will be an issue.

 

[2into1]

You’re clearly in some pain right now so let’s look at the evidence?

You’ve owned enough Calis to know what they are and how they behave.

You’ve read enough arguments and punch ups about the configuration of the 7.

I believe the daft layout of the 7 will do your head in very quickly.

It’s my opinion, and I’ll happily place a bet here and now, the next Gen of Cali (assuming VW still exists?) will be a return to the tried and tested configuration.

(Existing 7 owners, look away now!)
If the above comes true then the 7 will become a niche “ugly duckling” nobody wants.

FWIW, I don’t think in our camping lifetime diesel supply/price will be an issue.

Come on Sidepod, don't mince your words

 

[Keaver17]

We like our niche ugly duckling, better layout than our 64 splitty we used to have and love

 

[temporarysecretary]

I would say the VW market will do what it has always done (rightly or wrongly).

I think the Kia PV5 market will get cannibalised by a Chinese competitor.

 

[Califan61]

I'm toying with sinking £80k into a PHEV Cali, but obviously have my worries.

In 2019 I sold an 2017 Ocean thinking that residuals were about to tank and I clearly got that spectacularly wrong!

My logic then and somewhat now is that Calis retain values so well because they have such a long serviceable life and they only evolve gradually, giving 30+ years of demand easily. But electric vehicles were on the horizon, even if useable vans were a long way off.

But now the Kia PV5 (and now the 7) is here and the timetable to viability looks different

I'd speculate the next Cali will be electric, or they'll be a fully electric model, not just a PHEV. If that's right, how will diesel, petrol and PHEV Calis look even 15 years down the line, and what will that do for residuals?

The new Cali PHEV suits my current needs very nicely, but I'm aware it's likely never likely to garner the same love that the previous (fully 'T') models did. Might it get squeezed between the loved T4,5,6 and the next fully electric model?

I'd be interested in your thoughts. I don't need any "just get on with your life" advice. I'm doing that, I'm just curious about this thought experiment.

T7 and PV5 have tiny payload making completely impractical as campers.

 

[WelshGas]

T7 and PV5 have tiny payload making completely impractical as campers.

Do they?
Depends how much gear you want to take compared to how much you actually need to take.

 

[sidepod]

Well the only useable baseline for volume must be the 5/6/6.1 ?

 

[SusiBus]

Having had a few California's, I got caught up in the hype of having an electric vehicle and ended up selling our T6 4Motion and buying a 1st Edition Buzz. Lovely as it was to drive, l did find the extra width not to my liking, then vehicle problems started to surface on the internet. l also noticed the drop in values, having previously always considered the residual value of my vehicles an important part of keeping check of my motoring expenses. I sold the Buzz and placed an order for one of the last T6.1 4Motions. What a good decision! There is an identical Buzz for sale on Autotrader at the moment, same year, same colour, having only done 500 Miles, for £26,000 less than l paid. That's a drop from £66,000 to £39,900, a huge loss in residual value without going anywhere. Whereas if l was to sell my current T6.1 4Motion at the moment, I'd expect it to have retained at least 90% of its original purchase price.
So my thoughts are, if you're concerned about residuals I'd stear clear of Hybrid and Electric Californias. Stick to dirty diesel. To be more precise, I'd buy only a 4Motion, preferably fully loaded, and the icing on the cake, with a diff lock. These are like hens' teeth which have always from my experience kept the residue value of my Calis high.
If you're in the market for one, there's a beauty on Autotrader. 23 Reg 19,000 miles £67,000 or 22 Reg 1900 miles £69,999.

 

[sidepod]

FWIW Breeze offered me pretty much what I paid for my 6.1 earlier this summer.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

On the subject of PV5, the new Wellhouse (Excellent Yorkshire Firm) PV5 camper is here, using Vehicle-to-load for the microwave and induction hobs:

 

[Wannabecamperman]

 

[Wannabecamperman]

Sorry can't link or edit but it's here:

 

[Marco Venturi]

Having had a few California's, I got caught up in the hype of having an electric vehicle and ended up selling our T6 4Motion and buying a 1st Edition Buzz. Lovely as it was to drive, l did find the extra width not to my liking, then vehicle problems started to surface on the internet. l also noticed the drop in values, having previously always considered the residual value of my vehicles an important part of keeping check of my motoring expenses. I sold the Buzz and placed an order for one of the last T6.1 4Motions. What a good decision! There is an identical Buzz for sale on Autotrader at the moment, same year, same colour, having only done 500 Miles, for £26,000 less than l paid. That's a drop from £66,000 to £39,900, a huge loss in residual value without going anywhere. Whereas if l was to sell my current T6.1 4Motion at the moment, I'd expect it to have retained at least 90% of its original purchase price.
So my thoughts are, if you're concerned about residuals I'd stear clear of Hybrid and Electric Californias. Stick to dirty diesel. To be more precise, I'd buy only a 4Motion, preferably fully loaded, and the icing on the cake, with a diff lock. These are like hens' teeth which have always from my experience kept the residue value of my Calis high.
If you're in the market for one, there's a beauty on Autotrader. 23 Reg 19,000 miles £67,000 or 22 Reg 1900 miles £69,999.

Add to the diff lock "icing", the cherries of an 80 litre tank (which strangely the configurator didn't offer Joe Public as an option with 4Motion) and adaptive suspension.

 

[SusiBus]

There are often coments that the Cali suspension is a bit soft and wobbly. Yes, when lightly loaded, which might justify adaptive suspension. I find that our 4Motion when fully loaded, (we usually have the extra weight of water and beer as we normally camp off grid) would be unlikely to benefit from adaptive suspension, but I've no experience of it on a Cali.
We have got it on our Golf Clubsport. To me it doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference, certainly not enough to require it to be a must have icing.

 

[westfalia]

I'm toying with sinking £80k into a PHEV Cali, but obviously have my worries.

I had to renew my leisure batteries last year after 19yrs, went for the same vw ones, it was a bit expensive for both, although 19yrs isn't too bad.
How much will the battery be on a PHEV in 19yrs?

 

[Loz2286]

I can't comment on the PV5 as a camper, but it is really making inroads into the angling market. I know it's a niche market place but match anglers have payload issues too and they are hard users of their vehicles. The Buzz, though pretty, has a challenging floor height for anglers' trolleys. For many years the Transits and Transporters were ubiquitous. The PV5 is now turning up more often. My T6.1 Kombi is relatively new; if/when I look for a replacement the PV5 could be on the list.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

We have our 2008 Cali which I bought in 2009. Just drove back from Spain this summer. Despite breaking down 2 years ago, I’m back to thinking it’s rock solid and will outlast me. Done 90k miles only. We are on our 2nd EV which I’m now using for our holidays where we aren’t camping - Airbnbs and skiing in Alps - when I used to use the Cali.

I think guessing what ‘we’ will be driving in ten years is almost impossible and not advisable. (I’ll be driving our 2008 Cali and 2021 iX3) EV batteries last 15+ years IMO.

If you want a Cali I would get a good 5-8 year old one. Don’t attempt crystal ball gazing. Play it safe.

 

[2into1]

Thanks all for your comments. The Kia reference was thrown in because it really has seemed to represent a real leap forward in affordability and range. I'm seeing lots of mid mileage customers now replacing transits and (Turkish) Transporters to go down the electric route. The heavy mileage users can't jump yet.

Doing the same to a campervan is an even greater challenge but given the rate of change.....I don't think it will be long. I'm fortunate to have the time to break the journey up. Clearly if you need to get to the South of France for a 10 day holiday, then an electric camper will be further away.

Keep any thoughts coming

 

[WelshGas]

I had to renew my leisure batteries last year after 19yrs, went for the same vw ones, it was a bit expensive for both, although 19yrs isn't too bad.
How much will the battery be on a PHEV in 19yrs?

Possibly less in today’s prices, but more due to inflation.

 

[P600BOO]

You’re clearly in some pain right now so let’s look at the evidence?

You’ve owned enough Calis to know what they are and how they behave.

You’ve read enough arguments and punch ups about the configuration of the 7.

I believe the daft layout of the 7 will do your head in very quickly.

It’s my opinion, and I’ll happily place a bet here and now, the next Gen of Cali (assuming VW still exists?) will be a return to the tried and tested configuration.

(Existing 7 owners, look away now!)
If the above comes true then the 7 will become a niche “ugly duckling” nobody wants.

FWIW, I don’t think in our camping lifetime diesel supply/price will be an issue.

Well I think my T7 Ocean "ugly duckling" is brilliant, far better then the T6.1 Ocean 4Motion that i had in the past.
If prices fall through the floor, that will be down to VW reducing prices or doing silly cheap PCP deals to shift stock as they did with the Buz.

 

[Gliderbee California 6.1]

You’re clearly in some pain right now so let’s look at the evidence?

You’ve owned enough Calis to know what they are and how they behave.

You’ve read enough arguments and punch ups about the configuration of the 7.

I believe the daft layout of the 7 will do your head in very quickly.

It’s my opinion, and I’ll happily place a bet here and now, the next Gen of Cali (assuming VW still exists?) will be a return to the tried and tested configuration.

(Existing 7 owners, look away now!)
If the above comes true then the 7 will become a niche “ugly duckling” nobody wants.

FWIW, I don’t think in our camping lifetime diesel supply/price will be an issue.

Agreed 100% on everything mentioned here !

 

[Chriskend]

“FWIW, I don’t think in our camping lifetime diesel supply/price will be an issue.“

I once said something similar when diesel was 80p a GALLON, with trumps unpredictable and indecisive sh*tty idea’s on how to destroy any and all supply lines I can see fuel prices doubling. Ten years ago, who would ever have thought fuel would be 2 quid a litre(over 8 quid a gallon)I have two EV’s and solar and honestly think it was the best money saving idea I have made, all I need now is a viable EV camper that will cover 400mls when loaded.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

I can't comment on the PV5 as a camper, but it is really making inroads into the angling market. I know it's a niche market place but match anglers have payload issues too and they are hard users of their vehicles. The Buzz, though pretty, has a challenging floor height for anglers' trolleys. For many years the Transits and Transporters were ubiquitous. The PV5 is now turning up more often. My T6.1 Kombi is relatively new; if/when I look for a replacement the PV5 could be on the list.

It's also just £59k and has a 7 year warranty. Oh, and 3600 watts of V2L onboard.

Lots to love, you must admit.

 

[cangyroo]

I can't find any enthusiasm for the interior of this Kia PV5.
I couldn't live with being inside it: The design, colour scheme, rear doors, the sliding door which the kitchen unit is blocking, the clumsy way the seats fold flat. Maybe I'm being shallow, but design aesthetics and styling are important to me...., but each to their own!