Advice on Adblue & DPF issue

[DocDave]

Would be grateful for some advice - I am currently in France and since leaving england despite 2 refills the adblue MFD distance did not increase. I now have 1300 miles left on the display - probably enough to get back to the UK. However I went to the VW Van Centre in Brive and they kindly ran their diagnostics - they said they could not reset the system (despite trying) and that the ultrasonic sensor failure was most likely the cause.

On my way back to where we stay the DPF light came on - so on return i used an OBDII reader (Car Scanner) and found on the ECU fault codes a P218F00 error code that suggests no adblue is flowing out of the tank - perhaps injector blockage. This seems likely to me to have resulted in more soot in the DPF than usual hence the DPF warning light. I cleared the codes and the DPF light has gone off (but adblue still 1300 miles) The app also shows a calculated soot level (24g) but i cant find any "measured" soot levels in the app. I have read many of the helpful posts on the adblue issues but not sure what the dpf risks are here. We have done mainly motorway driving here - not short trips.

I expect the errors will recurr when I next drive it if their truly is no flow into the exhaust system. Do you think I can make it back safely to the UK on the autoroutes and will the regeneration system still operate (with no adblue injecting) to clear the soot? Or should I bite the bullet and take it back to the VW dealer which may involve a tank replacement and some delays. I am booked to return to the UK this friday...... All advice welcome.

Its a 2106 205 DSG California approx 55,000miles

David

 

[temporarysecretary]

Ad blue doesn't affect soot it reduces NOX and isn't part of the regen process.

If you dont have a code for DPF and the soot is at 24g you should be fine on that front. It should regen around 30g so id expect to see it in the next 50 miles.

Id say that light was for the adblue and hopefully just the one issue for you.

The adblue system is prone to problems on the T6 unfortunately so good chance there is a genuine issue to resolve. Only info I have seen is VW swapping out loads of parts to resolve the issues.

Seen as you have no flow it could be worth a punt and try an anti crystaliser in the asblue tank incase it frees it up. Or equally could be the injector/pump has failed or wiring damaged underneath, did they get the van up in the air to have a look?

 

[Perfectos]

The ad blue injector attaches to the DPF , located near the drivers door (U.K. van ) a very recent post showed something had chewed through the cable that controls the injector.

Have a look at the other recent posts, unfortunately when dealing with ad blue issues the ECU is the controlling factor, the van can go into limp mode if there is an active fault code.

Do you have an OBD reader that you can use to clear a fault when / if it throws up a yellow EML ?

The VW dealer should be able to test the pump and check the injector function very easily, if the injector is blocked , warm water will clean it up. (Or undiluted anti crystal fluid, then washed off with wam water).

Have a look at this thread , I've posted some pics that may assist you

Engine management fault P2046

Hi all I have the engine management light on in our 2018 Ocean. I have a generic fault code scanner which has said the fault code is P2047. I e attached the photo of the code and the freeze frame info. The van is under the All In warranty. A bit of googling suggests this code could be...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[DocDave]

An update -
Added some Wynns anticrystal this morning - adblue indicator still at 1300miles.
I looked at the injector under the van but don't think I have the tools and access to take it off and clean it here.
Took the van to the local village for some food (~5miles) and the adblue display suddenly jumped down from 1300 to 650 miles and the yellow spanner appeared - why? Spoke to the local Brive VW Van garage again - but they have a 3week waiting list for service/repairs......

So have called the AA/VW assistance - and was fed to the european support team and now waiting to see if their patrol can do anything. If they can't we may still try and get to Dieppe and england - its ~470 miles - but if the ECU decides to mess about with the remaining mileage again we may not make it!

 

[Viktorgeorge]

An update -
Added some Wynns anticrystal this morning - adblue indicator still at 1300miles.
I looked at the injector under the van but don't think I have the tools and access to take it off and clean it here.
Took the van to the local village for some food (~5miles) and the adblue display suddenly jumped down from 1300 to 650 miles and the yellow spanner appeared - why? Spoke to the local Brive VW Van garage again - but they have a 3week waiting list for service/repairs......

So have called the AA/VW assistance - and was fed to the european support team and now waiting to see if their patrol can do anything. If they can't we may still try and get to Dieppe and england - its ~470 miles - but if the ECU decides to mess about with the remaining mileage again we may not make it!

Best wishes at a difficult time for you. I am no expert, but from my reading of AdBlue posts generally, if you have had the sudden drop you describe it is likely you will need a workshop rather than roadside assistance, though I would like to be wrong for your sake. The other point I read is that once the reading drops further from 650 (can't recall the precise miles amount) the engine should continue to run but might no restart. So, in other words, if you need to make a run for it, it may pay never to stop the engine. This is all hearsay, others may know better.

 

[Perfectos]

An update -
Added some Wynns anticrystal this morning - adblue indicator still at 1300miles.
I looked at the injector under the van but don't think I have the tools and access to take it off and clean it here.
Took the van to the local village for some food (~5miles) and the adblue display suddenly jumped down from 1300 to 650 miles and the yellow spanner appeared - why? Spoke to the local Brive VW Van garage again - but they have a 3week waiting list for service/repairs......

So have called the AA/VW assistance - and was fed to the european support team and now waiting to see if their patrol can do anything. If they can't we may still try and get to Dieppe and england - it's ~470 miles - but if the ECU decides to mess about with the remaining mileage again we may not make it!

Why: the ECU has detected a fault that is on going,
that fault had thrown the spanner sign and add blue sign and jumped to 650 miles count down to no restart.
The ECU has taken control of all ad blue functions and will ignore all sensors, until all are working 100% again.
If you can clear the fault code (make a note. / take photo of all codes) the ECU may decide the range can go up to the 1300 miles (It will not increase past this as it's locked into the ECU as recorded incident and therefore will use that as its countdown) if this happens the spanner and add blue fill sign will disappear until you reach 650 miles of range at which the ad blue fill sign will reappear without the spanner

If you decide to return to the U.K. drive economically to keep regen to a minimum (65 - 70mph )

Brim your fuel tank so you do not need to stop at all to get home. (Do it at an appropriate point en route, to maximise the distance you can travel, but don't wait until 200 milesor less , otherwise you may have an issue )

The ECU will deduct 100 miles for every regen whilst it cannot get the required info from the ad blue sensors, it will also deduct the mileage you travel from the remaining range.


Note the van can be restarted by someone with a decent Vw Dealer type code reader (not Carista et at el) after the count down has reached zero , but if you switch off the ignition you will need assistance again.
Edit: disable start stop with the dash button (not sure if will work anyway) , best be safe than sorry.

I wish you luck, if it was me I'd be trying to get home Or at least get as close as possible and judging it as I go en route depending on the ECU count down.

 

[DocDave]

Update 2
The AA Assistance basically contacted a local recovery team who eventually rang and said they did not have the software to reset the adblue system.

Can I ask if we drive tomorrow and call in to a vw van centre en route would they be able to reset the levels - now it has the spanner showing and 650 on the clock? Or are they only able to restart the engine after it locks out at zero? It seems likely we would see 2 regens (soot now 25%) so giving us 450 miles unless the levels are reset. That probably won't get us to the channel and a no-start on a ferry would not be popular! We are thinking through the options.

I cleared the recurred P218F00 - the dpf light went out but the spanner and 650 miles adblue remained unchanged. Even if the anti-crystal works I get the impression it will still count down?

Our plan B will be to book the van into Brive in 3-4 weeks time and fly back now - then return to get the van sorted out later.......

 

[Viktorgeorge]

Update 2
The AA Assistance basically contacted a local recovery team who eventually rang and said they did not have the software to reset the adblue system.

Can I ask if we drive tomorrow and call in to a vw van centre en route would they be able to reset the levels - now it has the spanner showing and 650 on the clock? Or are they only able to restart the engine after it locks out at zero? It seems likely we would see 2 regens (soot now 25%) so giving us 450 miles unless the levels are reset. That probably won't get us to the channel and a no-start on a ferry would not be popular! We are thinking through the options.

I cleared the recurred P218F00 - the dpf light went out but the spanner and 650 miles adblue remained unchanged. Even if the anti-crystal works I get the impression it will still count down?

Our plan B will be to book the van into Brive in 3-4 weeks time and fly back now - then return to get the van sorted out later.......

I feel for you, one other possibility (assuming you do not have roadside recovery in Europe), though I don't know the cost, is a firm such as this:

Bot Verification

I know nothing of them, but you might research that idea (if you have no already).

 

[Perfectos]

Update 2
The AA Assistance basically contacted a local recovery team who eventually rang and said they did not have the software to reset the adblue system.

Can I ask if we drive tomorrow and call in to a vw van centre en route would they be able to reset the levels - now it has the spanner showing and 650 on the clock? Or are they only able to restart the engine after it locks out at zero? It seems likely we would see 2 regens (soot now 25%) so giving us 450 miles unless the levels are reset. That probably won't get us to the channel and a no-start on a ferry would not be popular! We are thinking through the options.

I cleared the recurred P218F00 - the dpf light went out but the spanner and 650 miles adblue remained unchanged. Even if the anti-crystal works I get the impression it will still count down?

Our plan B will be to book the van into Brive in 3-4 weeks time and fly back now - then return to get the van sorted out later.......

With the fault code cleared. You have a chance that the ECU will revert back to the 1300 miles or there abouts.

Two Regens at 100 miles per Regen during the run should not affect the count down mileage too badly as you are travelling long distances.i.e the ECU will recognise constant and efficient engine conditions. (Not hard driving) and adjust based on its pre set parameters.

Can you drive for 50+ miles in the direction of the port 65- 70 mph, see if the ad blue range comes back and the spanner goes away ? (Reason : ECU may take 50 miles to sort itself out)
It will not sort the overall issue in the ECU , but it might get you home with minimal hassle.

Edit; you may have to switch off the engine , leave it for a while before turning the ignition back on to see if the ad blue range resets to circa 1300. Reason , ECU needs to go to sleep (30 minutes key out and locked) and check parameters when turned back on. (After 50 miles )

Head In the general direction of VW garage. (All vw garages will have the diagnostic equipment)

Can you call ahead and speak Enough French to make the, understand the issue and your coming ?
I truly believe you will not simply reset the ac blue system, you may just need some minor works if you're lucky, but without running proper diagnostics you simply are guessing as to the issue. If it turns out to be damaged wires you may be able to get it sorted, otherwise it's parts and money.

If the mileage drops quickly, which I doubt, abort and get off the motorway at the nearest town.

As far as breaking down on the ferry. They have it all the time and they will simply tow you off ! But at least you'll be in Blighty with your van !

Don't envy you , wish you all the best.

We're here for you if nothing else for support

 

[DocDave]

Update 3
We decided (as we are retired) not to try for the channel ferry but book it in near here (Brive). We phoned all the VW Van (Utilitaires) Centres along the A20 first to see if they could fit us in to reset or repair en route. All of them had 2-3 week waits - or remarkably said they did not have the right "qualified technician/software".
We drove back up to Brive and booked a diagnostic&repair slot (November!) - this triggered a regen when we stopped in a carpark on the way back. Since then the adblue mileage counter has dropped to 600 - about right for the distance we travelled. As yet no sign of a 100 mile cost for the regen. I cleared the ECU codes before we travelled but they returned - so clearly there is a definite fault - sensor/pump/injector. We did try all the suggested manoeuvres.

In retrospect I wish I had been aware of the "crystallisation" issue - and also of exactly what happens when you start the "countdown" The sudden countdown drop from 1300 miles to 650 miles is what really created the problem for us - and the uncertainty of what else the ECU might choose to do!

I can see why many are tempted to disable the whole adblue system.

Thank you to the above forum members for all your help and suggestions.

 

[Perfectos]

Update 3
We decided (as we are retired) not to try for the channel ferry but book it in near here (Brive). We phoned all the VW Van (Utilitaires) Centres along the A20 first to see if they could fit us in to reset or repair en route. All of them had 2-3 week waits - or remarkably said they did not have the right "qualified technician/software".
We drove back up to Brive and booked a diagnostic&repair slot (November!) - this triggered a regen when we stopped in a carpark on the way back. Since then the adblue mileage counter has dropped to 600 - about right for the distance we travelled. As yet no sign of a 100 mile cost for the regen. I cleared the ECU codes before we travelled but they returned - so clearly there is a definite fault - sensor/pump/injector. We did try all the suggested manoeuvres.

In retrospect I wish I had been aware of the "crystallisation" issue - and also of exactly what happens when you start the "countdown" The sudden countdown drop from 1300 miles to 650 miles is what really created the problem for us - and the uncertainty of what else the ECU might choose to do!

I can see why many are tempted to disable the whole adblue system.

Thank you to the above forum members for all your help and suggestions.

Hope you get it sorted soon. I suspect a new tank , pump and bill of £1500+ is on the cards

 

[da_murphster]

Is it worth finding a mapping/tuning place and getting the as blue mapped out, even if it's just to allow you to carry on your hols?

Then you could sort it out at home.

 

[GlennR]

Would be grateful for some advice - I am currently in France and since leaving england despite 2 refills the adblue MFD distance did not increase. I now have 1300 miles left on the display - probably enough to get back to the UK. However I went to the VW Van Centre in Brive and they kindly ran their diagnostics - they said they could not reset the system (despite trying) and that the ultrasonic sensor failure was most likely the cause.

On my way back to where we stay the DPF light came on - so on return i used an OBDII reader (Car Scanner) and found on the ECU fault codes a P218F00 error code that suggests no adblue is flowing out of the tank - perhaps injector blockage. This seems likely to me to have resulted in more soot in the DPF than usual hence the DPF warning light. I cleared the codes and the DPF light has gone off (but adblue still 1300 miles) The app also shows a calculated soot level (24g) but i cant find any "measured" soot levels in the app. I have read many of the helpful posts on the adblue issues but not sure what the dpf risks are here. We have done mainly motorway driving here - not short trips.

I expect the errors will recurr when I next drive it if their truly is no flow into the exhaust system. Do you think I can make it back safely to the UK on the autoroutes and will the regeneration system still operate (with no adblue injecting) to clear the soot? Or should I bite the bullet and take it back to the VW dealer which may involve a tank replacement and some delays. I am booked to return to the UK this friday...... All advice welcome.

Its a 2106 205 DSG California approx 55,000miles

David

Hi David
I had exactly the same problem with my 2017 California. It is almost certainly the ad blue tank sensor which involves a replacement ad blue tank and a very expensive diagnostic and only a VW dealership can do it. Cost £1685
There are links on here to give you more information. It appears to be a problem with 2016-2018 models and over filling the ad blue tank.
Sorry to be a bearer of bad news.

Glenn

 

[Tapnstrum]

Hi David, I had an identical problem which was caused by rodents or foxes chewing the exposed wiring from the sensor underneath the van. This was an easy fix by my local garage. It may be worth getting someone to put the van up on a ramp and check all exposed wires before finally abandoning your van in Brive.

 

[temporarysecretary]

The fact you have both no flow and 'low level' simultaneously that suggests the wiring is hopefully the most likely scenario.

 

[juliejellie]

We also had the same about a year ago on our 2018 T6 and had £1200 bill (local garage sent to specialist local garage). It took about 4 weeks to get diagnosed and sorted. A friend however with similar van said he had same issue but managed to get the sensor/system disabled so he didn't have the cost or the worry. Van still working fine.

 

[Tapnstrum]

Hi David, I had an identical problem which was caused by rodents or foxes chewing the exposed wiring from the sensor underneath the van. This was an easy fix by my local garage. It may be worth getting someone to put the van up on a ramp and check all exposed wires before finally abandoning your van in Brive.

Just a follow up to this. If the wiring is the problem - a main dealer will only respond by changing the entire wiring loom which was the initial suggestion. This would have cost over a thousand pounds. My local garage joined the chewed bits together for minimal cost and the van is still going strong a couple of years later without further issues.

 

[Perfectos]

Just a follow up to this. If the wiring is the problem - a main dealer will only respond by changing the entire wiring loom which was the initial suggestion. This would have cost over a thousand pounds. My local garage joined the chewed bits together for minimal cost and the van is still going strong a couple of years later without further issues.

Let's be clear about this ,
there are Not loads of cables hanging in the open air that can be easily accessed by animals such as foxes , rodents etc.
That is not to say there have been reports of damage from chewing damage. See the linked thread In Post #3 above
There is one small loom under the vehicle that is connected to the Ad blue injector. That short length of cable seems to be the main culprit, presumably because it is not covered up like most of the other cables.
The ad blue injector " loom" if damaged is a very short section , the ad blue injector is cira £200 and includes the "loom". , it attaches to another loom (covered) via a connector, allowing it to be replaced easily if damaged.
The incidence of reported issues seems to be fairly small given the number of vans, albeit it does happen.
There is another section of cable, attached to the engine oil sensor, again a short run of cable and easily replaced !
There is also evidence to suggest that cables covered by underbody panels (protection) can become damaged via rubbing of the cables insulation eventually exposing the cable and causing issues. (I.e. poor design and manufacturing)
Why would anyone suggest the most intrusive and costly remedial measure such as replacing a vehicles entire wiring loom at the cost of thousands?
What ever replacing the "loom" means?
Modern vehicles have many and multiple looms to carry out different functions all over the vehicle, the looms are interconnected with shorter sections. Often terminated at convenient points to allow for sections to be added during manufacturing, particularly those that are considered "extra".

The overall electrical system is not simply one bundle of cables running the entire length of the of the underside of the vehicle exposed for easy access by rodent and foxes.

If dealers are exploiting the ignorance of the customer, this needs to be challenged with proof of the cause of damage being established, IMO some may be being duped.

There is some instances here and on the T6 forums where cables have clearly been subject to some mechanical damage which could be attributed to an animal, similarly there are instances where rubbing has been the issue. Either way it's certainly not of epidemic proportions.

 

[vbk1975]

Let's be clear about this ,
there are Not loads of cables hanging in the open air that can be easily accessed by animals such as foxes , rodents etc.
That is not to say there have been reports of damage from chewing damage. See the linked thread In Post #3 above
There is one small loom under the vehicle that is connected to the Ad blue injector. That short length of cable seems to be the main culprit, presumably because it is not covered up like most of the other cables.
The ad blue injector " loom" if damaged is a very short section , the ad blue injector is cira £200 and includes the "loom". , it attaches to another loom (covered) via a connector, allowing it to be replaced easily if damaged.
The incidence of reported issues seems to be fairly small given the number of vans, albeit it does happen.
There is another section of cable, attached to the engine oil sensor, again a short run of cable and easily replaced !
There is also evidence to suggest that cables covered by underbody panels (protection) can become damaged via rubbing of the cables insulation eventually exposing the cable and causing issues. (I.e. poor design and manufacturing)
Why would anyone suggest the most intrusive and costly remedial measure such as replacing a vehicles entire wiring loom at the cost of thousands?
What ever replacing the "loom" means?
Modern vehicles have many and multiple looms to carry out different functions all over the vehicle, the looms are interconnected with shorter sections. Often terminated at convenient points to allow for sections to be added during manufacturing, particularly those that are considered "extra".

The overall electrical system is not simply one bundle of cables running the entire length of the of the underside of the vehicle exposed for easy access by rodent and foxes.

If dealers are exploiting the ignorance of the customer, this needs to be challenged with proof of the cause of damage being established, IMO some may be being duped.

There is some instances here and on the T6 forums where cables have clearly been subject to some mechanical damage which could be attributed to an animal, similarly there are instances where rubbing has been the issue. Either way it's certainly not of epidemic proportions.

I agree.

Generically Harness sections (varies car company to car company and can vary per model)

• Main Body Harness (The most significant harness and almost first thing to be fitted at build)
• Engine Bay Harness (sometimes is part of main body harness, often has fuse-boxes wired in)
• Engine Harness / Gearbox (normally supplied with engine)
• IP Harness (Dashboard - built into assembly and shipped as one)
• Roof Harness (often glued to headlining)
• Doors
• Seats
• Tailgate (some companies/ models have this part of main harness)
• Chassis (Fuel Tank, Suspension, Rear / Central Diff / towing)
• Front Bumper (Park Aid Sensors / lights)
• Rear Bumper (Park Aid Sensors / lights)

+ Random small link harness (lights / emissions stuff)
+ Battery cables / earth cable vary, some will be in the harness bundles, others separate parts.

Dealers are equipped to do wiring joins / repairs / connector repairs and some companies will also allow repair sections to be ordered and overlaid (& spliced in)

Whole harness replacement is absolute last measure and if it is a Main body harness is almost always on low to medium value cars not economically viable given it is basically a full interior strip out. Water or fire damaged are normally the main reasons to consider.

It has varies over time, but a lot of companies won't repair (splice) any airbag wiring, but they will have an airbag service harness that you overlay without need for full replacement.