SOLVED: Looking for some info about roof control, hoping some people can help me gather data please :)

[ElectronicEquipmentRepair]

Topic marked as SOLVED - we have gathered the info we were looking for, thank you!

Hi everyone...
I'm not sure where I should post this thread, so mods please feel free to move it

I’m doing some investigation into how the VW California camping control unit monitors and controls the electro-hydraulic roof, and I’m looking for some information from owners with correctly working roofs.

I now have enough information to simulate control of the roof system on the bench and can reproduce a number of different roof states. What would be particularly useful is to compare my bench results with the values reported by control units fitted to working vans.

I am not asking anyone to take voltage measurements, remove the control panel, disconnect anything or probe any wiring. All I need are some photos of the control panel's built-in diagnostic screen while the van and roof are in several different states.

Accessing the hidden hardware/debug screen

On the camping control unit:

Press the centre of the rotary control/SELECT button to bring up the normal menu.
Press and hold the BACK button and the centre of the rotary/SELECT control together for approximately 3 seconds.
A hidden menu should appear.
Select Diagnostics.
Select Hardware Menu.

This displays the internal analogue/debug values as AN0, AN1, AN2 ... AN9 as well as digital input states SHFT1 and SHF2.

I'm interested in seeing a clear photo showing the complete Hardware List would be much more useful than just writing down those two numbers.

What I would like to collect

If you have a California with a normally working electric roof, could you take a photo of the Hardware Menu in as many of the following conditions as is convenient:

Roof fully CLOSED, key removed, ignition off
Roof fully CLOSED, key inserted, ignition off
Roof fully CLOSED, ignition on
Roof approximately HALF OPEN, key inserted, ignition off
Roof approximately HALF OPEN, ignition on
Roof fully OPEN, key inserted, ignition off
Roof fully OPEN, ignition on

If possible, it would also be useful to know:

Van model/year:
Control panel type/part number, if known:
Roof position: closed / partly open / fully open
Key: inserted / removed
Ignition: on / off

Then attach a photo of the Hardware Menu screen for each condition.

There is no need to operate the roof with the ignition in a state in which the van would not normally allow it. The idea is simply to position the roof normally, then look at the diagnostic values under the different key/ignition conditions.

Why I'm interested

The control unit has two internal analogue readings associated with the roof system, AN8 and AN9. I have been investigating how these inputs are interpreted and have been able to reproduce different roof indications on a control unit on the bench.

For example, I can produce states corresponding to roof open, roof closed and an intermediate/part-open roof position. What I don't yet have is a good set of reference readings from several known-good vans showing exactly what the control unit sees in real-world conditions.

I'm particularly interested in whether the readings are consistent between vehicles, how much they vary, and what changes when the key/ignition state changes.

Even one or two photos from a working van would be helpful, so don't worry if you don't want to go through every combination above.

Please don't dismantle anything or take electrical measurements for this – the information available from the built-in Hardware List is all I'm looking for.

Thanks – I'll collate the results and, once I've got enough examples, I'll post what I find about how the roof inputs and control logic appear to work.

 

[vbk1975]

Hi everyone...
I'm not sure where I should post this thread, so mods please feel free to move it

I’m doing some investigation into how the VW California camping control unit monitors and controls the electro-hydraulic roof, and I’m looking for some information from owners with correctly working roofs.

I now have enough information to simulate control of the roof system on the bench and can reproduce a number of different roof states. What would be particularly useful is to compare my bench results with the values reported by control units fitted to working vans.

I am not asking anyone to take voltage measurements, remove the control panel, disconnect anything or probe any wiring. All I need are some photos of the control panel's built-in diagnostic screen while the van and roof are in several different states.

Accessing the hidden hardware/debug screen

On the camping control unit:

Press the centre of the rotary control/SELECT button to bring up the normal menu.
Press and hold the BACK button and the centre of the rotary/SELECT control together for approximately 3 seconds.
A hidden menu should appear.
Select Diagnostics.
Select Hardware Menu.

This displays the internal analogue/debug values as AN0, AN1, AN2 ... AN9 as well as digital input states SHFT1 and SHF2.

I'm interested in seeing a clear photo showing the complete Hardware List would be much more useful than just writing down those two numbers.

What I would like to collect

If you have a California with a normally working electric roof, could you take a photo of the Hardware Menu in as many of the following conditions as is convenient:

Roof fully CLOSED, key removed, ignition off
Roof fully CLOSED, key inserted, ignition off
Roof fully CLOSED, ignition on
Roof approximately HALF OPEN, key inserted, ignition off
Roof approximately HALF OPEN, ignition on
Roof fully OPEN, key inserted, ignition off
Roof fully OPEN, ignition on

If possible, it would also be useful to know:

Van model/year:
Control panel type/part number, if known:
Roof position: closed / partly open / fully open
Key: inserted / removed
Ignition: on / off

Then attach a photo of the Hardware Menu screen for each condition.

There is no need to operate the roof with the ignition in a state in which the van would not normally allow it. The idea is simply to position the roof normally, then look at the diagnostic values under the different key/ignition conditions.

Why I'm interested

The control unit has two internal analogue readings associated with the roof system, AN8 and AN9. I have been investigating how these inputs are interpreted and have been able to reproduce different roof indications on a control unit on the bench.

For example, I can produce states corresponding to roof open, roof closed and an intermediate/part-open roof position. What I don't yet have is a good set of reference readings from several known-good vans showing exactly what the control unit sees in real-world conditions.

I'm particularly interested in whether the readings are consistent between vehicles, how much they vary, and what changes when the key/ignition state changes.

Even one or two photos from a working van would be helpful, so don't worry if you don't want to go through every combination above.

Please don't dismantle anything or take electrical measurements for this – the information available from the built-in Hardware List is all I'm looking for.

Thanks – I'll collate the results and, once I've got enough examples, I'll post what I find about how the roof inputs and control logic appear to work.

Ed

Hi everyone...
I'm not sure where I should post this thread, so mods please feel free to move it

I’m doing some investigation into how the VW California camping control unit monitors and controls the electro-hydraulic roof, and I’m looking for some information from owners with correctly working roofs.

I now have enough information to simulate control of the roof system on the bench and can reproduce a number of different roof states. What would be particularly useful is to compare my bench results with the values reported by control units fitted to working vans.

I am not asking anyone to take voltage measurements, remove the control panel, disconnect anything or probe any wiring. All I need are some photos of the control panel's built-in diagnostic screen while the van and roof are in several different states.

Accessing the hidden hardware/debug screen

On the camping control unit:

Press the centre of the rotary control/SELECT button to bring up the normal menu.
Press and hold the BACK button and the centre of the rotary/SELECT control together for approximately 3 seconds.
A hidden menu should appear.
Select Diagnostics.
Select Hardware Menu.

This displays the internal analogue/debug values as AN0, AN1, AN2 ... AN9 as well as digital input states SHFT1 and SHF2.

I'm interested in seeing a clear photo showing the complete Hardware List would be much more useful than just writing down those two numbers.

What I would like to collect

If you have a California with a normally working electric roof, could you take a photo of the Hardware Menu in as many of the following conditions as is convenient:

Roof fully CLOSED, key removed, ignition off
Roof fully CLOSED, key inserted, ignition off
Roof fully CLOSED, ignition on
Roof approximately HALF OPEN, key inserted, ignition off
Roof approximately HALF OPEN, ignition on
Roof fully OPEN, key inserted, ignition off
Roof fully OPEN, ignition on

If possible, it would also be useful to know:

Van model/year:
Control panel type/part number, if known:
Roof position: closed / partly open / fully open
Key: inserted / removed
Ignition: on / off

Then attach a photo of the Hardware Menu screen for each condition.

There is no need to operate the roof with the ignition in a state in which the van would not normally allow it. The idea is simply to position the roof normally, then look at the diagnostic values under the different key/ignition conditions.

Why I'm interested

The control unit has two internal analogue readings associated with the roof system, AN8 and AN9. I have been investigating how these inputs are interpreted and have been able to reproduce different roof indications on a control unit on the bench.

For example, I can produce states corresponding to roof open, roof closed and an intermediate/part-open roof position. What I don't yet have is a good set of reference readings from several known-good vans showing exactly what the control unit sees in real-world conditions.

I'm particularly interested in whether the readings are consistent between vehicles, how much they vary, and what changes when the key/ignition state changes.

Even one or two photos from a working van would be helpful, so don't worry if you don't want to go through every combination above.

Please don't dismantle anything or take electrical measurements for this – the information available from the built-in Hardware List is all I'm looking for.

Thanks – I'll collate the results and, once I've got enough examples, I'll post what I find about how the roof inputs and control logic appear to work.

Ed, @WelshGas suggested I could help.

i have done a lot of playing about with the whole system and have reversed engineered a lot of it using a 2nd hand panel you repaired for me ;-)

Apologies for perhaps telling you what you might already know.

The roof system is controlled via Roof ECU (not control panel), this is a modified GM unit as used on several Saab and Opel/Vauxhall products.

The 4 roof sensors (Tyco Electronic) 2 wire hall effects sensors are wired to the roof module, one reference output per pair and an analogue input per sensor.

The inputs into control panel AN8 /AN9 are reused valve output drivers from the Roof ECU. So the AN8 / AN9 are used as encoded signals.

The Roof ECU is powered by Vbatt, but has an ign trigger and the AN8/AN9 outputs aren’t until available until the module is in ign state.

The roof ECU will only set the AN9 and AN8 values based on both paired sensors being the in the same state.

The sensors are true limit switches so the Roof ECU will only have three valid states and an Error State.

Fully Open is only set with Both Open Sensors True and Both Closed Sensors False - AN8 ~108 and AN9 255

Fully Closed reverse of the logic above AN8 255 and AN9 ~108

Partially open but valid sensors they are both at ~108 (it has no understanding other than the sensors are not faulty but not active, so roof is in mid position )

Fault flag is 255 & 255
Causes (Determined in Roof ECU not Control Panel)
- one or more sensors out of range or open / short circuit
- plausibility error, ie open and closed sensors active at same time
- pump motor circuit open or under / over current (shunt in roof ecu)
- pump motor times out without open or closed state being achieved

The roof self correction is done purely in the roof ECU.

The question you have about the ranges of AN8 / AN9, I have seen 104-110 but as the Control Panel treats these as a tri-state encoding it is not really using these other than a state so I expect a wide band.

You can also generate an Error if the Roof ECU is disconnected or not ign powered but the Control Panel is. So there must be pull ups / pull downs in each ECU.

Just for completeness the Tyco (TE) sensors when active are operating at 12-17mA

Active on my rig (not calibrated) - Roof ECU in picture

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/attachments/img_9800-jpeg.136771/

not Active but in circuit

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/attachments/img_9801-jpeg.136772/

 

[ElectronicEquipmentRepair]

Thank you very much, I think we've spoken about this a bit but can't seem to find the old emails

This confirms a lot of my suspicions. It's very tolerant of different voltages at the AN8 and AN9 inputs. I have built a 5v regulator into my test jig and have various jumpers I can set to generate different conditions. It's quite happy with the 5v at the input being a mid-point of the range.

I can generate all these states and I think I know fairly well what the bit fields SHFT1 and SHFT2 mean now, these are read out from the shift registers on the board and provide the status of the inputs and buttons as well as whether a load is present on the outputs (eg the fridge output relay and the two roof control lines)

I think by now I have almost fully worked out the interface to the unit, apart from the heater controls. I guess that can wait until someone sends me a unit which doesn't control the heating!

Thanks again! Much appreciated!

 

[vbk1975]

Thank you very much, I think we've spoken about this a bit but can't seem to find the old emails

This confirms a lot of my suspicions. It's very tolerant of different voltages at the AN8 and AN9 inputs. I have built a 5v regulator into my test jig and have various jumpers I can set to generate different conditions. It's quite happy with the 5v at the input being a mid-point of the range.

I can generate all these states and I think I know fairly well what the bit fields SHFT1 and SHFT2 mean now, these are read out from the shift registers on the board and provide the status of the inputs and buttons as well as whether a load is present on the outputs (eg the fridge output relay and the two roof control lines)

I think by now I have almost fully worked out the interface to the unit, apart from the heater controls. I guess that can wait until someone sends me a unit which doesn't control the heating!

Thanks again! Much appreciated!

I will email you my messy spreadsheet with all the graphs and readings for all the other stuff and which PTC for fridge external temp etc

 

[sidepod]

All very interesting but what is it you want to achieve?

 

[vbk1975]

All very interesting but what is it you want to achieve?

I can’t speak for Ed, but from my point of view it has meant that by understanding of how the control panels functions and what the hardware menu is showing has meant the forum have managed to help loads of people fix faults as easily and cheaply as possible avoiding the dealers. Roof Sensors, fridge relay, corroded connections, fridge temp sensors etc, The fault codes are really generic but the hardware menu is means of knowing what is likely going on.

 

[ElectronicEquipmentRepair]

My goal is to be able to repair the units that fail to control the roof functions. I have had more than one unit sent in for repairs that has caused me to want to know more.

I think we have managed to get the required info now, I have been able to expand my test setup which allows me to check the roof control outputs work and the feedback from the roof unit.

Hopefully this means we can repair more of the units that we see with roof control issues.

It also means we can help diagnose issues before the unit is removed from the vehicle.

 

[Dave+]

Just wondering if this thread is relevant for the T5, T6 or T6.1

 

[vbk1975]

Just wondering if this thread is relevant for the T5, T6 or T6.1

T5 and T6, not T6.1.

T6.1 uses a different setup, same sensors and same type of pump, but the control logic is done by version of the special vehicle control ECU with specific software in it and a new display. But the display is just a display with none of the control logic within it. Unlike the T5&T6 controller panel the T6.1 controller is connected to the vehicle network and has diagnostics that can be read by dealer.

 

[Jerry999]

T6.1 output just for interest (from OBD Scanner).