Wonky roof

[JohnCalifornia]

Hi, I’ve been away for 4 nights and all good with Cali. When lowering the roof and checking around it I noticed the passenger side was much lower than the other side. This was front and back of the roof. I raised it up again and lowered it again and all good and level. Something I did notice this camping trip was the roof motor/pump turned on for around 20 seconds last night so I’m assuming roof had dropped slightly and the pump automatically turned on and put it back up. Should I be worried or is this normal? I’ve just tried the roof again now I’m home and all good and level when putting up and down.

 

[jeff]

Hi, I’ve been away for 4 nights and all good with Cali. When lowering the roof and checking around it I noticed the passenger side was much lower than the other side. This was front and back of the roof. I raised it up again and lowered it again and all good and level. Something I did notice this camping trip was the roof motor/pump turned on for around 20 seconds last night so I’m assuming roof had dropped slightly and the pump automatically turned on and put it back up. Should I be worried or is this normal? I’ve just tried the roof again now I’m home and all good and level when putting up and down.

Normal on a T5, retentions after it’s been up for about 10hours.

 

[Alexlex85]

I’ve got a t5.1 and in 3 days haven’t heard the pump kick in once

 

[JohnCalifornia]

Must admit it’s the first time it’s happened to me. My first thoughts are that the hydrolic fluid may be low Hence why roof was wonky.

 

[Goldi]

It's happened to others on the forum so if you can find the right words to put in the search box, you might find a satisfactory answer. I believe it can happen & might be normal.

 

[Gliderbee California 6.1]

That happens and is "normal" (in VW parlando) . The first time the pump turned on at night, I was a bit worried, but it is documented somewhere. After 10 hours without having the contact turned on and having sagged too much, the pump will kick in and lift the roof.

 

[crookrise]

Normal for it to self correct however it does tend to scare you first time it does it.
The cross section of the hydraulic ram shows the actuating chamber is very small and a small amount of air in there [ which there possibly is] has a drastic effect. Put the roof up in the heat and it cools down over night roof will sag

 

[donboon]

I’ve got a similar issue with my 2015 T5.1 California which is what made me take notice of this thread. Looking back at the numerous complaints I can see that no one has actually figured out what’s going on and it appears it’s a very common issue so I’m going to stick my neck out and offer some suggestions.
Firstly my training was in the RAF (1960 era) as an Aircraft Technician which involved hydraulics among many other things. Based on the excellent training and experience from designing and building my own hydraulic leverage systems I can see two possibilities. The first and most obvious is that there isn’t a direct torque link bar between both hydraulic rams to ensure they both extend together. The lever raising mechanism simply isn’t robust enough to prevent twisting and therefore preventing one ram operation faster than the other.
The second which I’m uncertain about (because I’ve not found the need to investigate further) is whether or not each ram is connected to an electrical circuit that monitors the extension of each ram and therefore controls it to retain equilibrium.
In the first instance I can’t see a viable way to implement a torque bar between each ram so the second option seems more favourable.
In my experience, when electronics are needed to control ram extensions then it almost makes sense to use an electronic ram such as linear actuator but they cost significantly more than hydraulics.
Without a balancing device this is a poor design.
So far I’ve found it difficult to find any meaningful information about the components on my California mainly because they seem to change components as they went along; fuse circuits for example.
Does anyone know for certain if the hydraulic rams are independently operated by separate pumps or a common pump. If independent then are they electrically monitored so they can be controlled.
If there’s nothing built into this design then it’s highly probable a simple electronic balancing circuit with sensors could be built.
I’m very interested to see how they designed this function especially if there’s a simple solution to be found.
Meanwhile I’ll continue to monitor my pop up roof with utmost caution being aware I’m not alone which I can honestly say to my wife who thinks I did something wrong
Kind regards to all

 

[vbk1975]

I’ve got a similar issue with my 2015 T5.1 California which is what made me take notice of this thread. Looking back at the numerous complaints I can see that no one has actually figured out what’s going on and it appears it’s a very common issue so I’m going to stick my neck out and offer some suggestions.
Firstly my training was in the RAF (1960 era) as an Aircraft Technician which involved hydraulics among many other things. Based on the excellent training and experience from designing and building my own hydraulic leverage systems I can see two possibilities. The first and most obvious is that there isn’t a direct torque link bar between both hydraulic rams to ensure they both extend together. The lever raising mechanism simply isn’t robust enough to prevent twisting and therefore preventing one ram operation faster than the other.
The second which I’m uncertain about (because I’ve not found the need to investigate further) is whether or not each ram is connected to an electrical circuit that monitors the extension of each ram and therefore controls it to retain equilibrium.
In the first instance I can’t see a viable way to implement a torque bar between each ram so the second option seems more favourable.
In my experience, when electronics are needed to control ram extensions then it almost makes sense to use an electronic ram such as linear actuator but they cost significantly more than hydraulics.
Without a balancing device this is a poor design.
So far I’ve found it difficult to find any meaningful information about the components on my California mainly because they seem to change components as they went along; fuse circuits for example.
Does anyone know for certain if the hydraulic rams are independently operated by separate pumps or a common pump. If independent then are they electrically monitored so they can be controlled.
If there’s nothing built into this design then it’s highly probable a simple electronic balancing circuit with sensors could be built.
I’m very interested to see how they designed this function especially if there’s a simple solution to be found.
Meanwhile I’ll continue to monitor my pop up roof with utmost caution being aware I’m not alone which I can honestly say to my wife who thinks I did something wrong
Kind regards to all

The system is driven by one pump, the left and right circuits have their own separate pressure check valve.

The rams have Hall sensors that are effectively limit switches that are triggered when the Rams are fully extended (or very close) - The system operates based on both switches being true to confirm roof up or down, but the trigger for the pump to auto run and repressure is based on one switch and timer. When you put the roof up, when the open limit switches are reached, the roof pump will continue to run (even with finger off button) until the pump electrical current reaches the point that is aligned to the system being fully pressurised.

My personal observation is that for me the roof sag is directly linked to strong sun on one side or the other during the day and that side will drop slightly overnight as it cools. I believe is the high temp either allows the fluid to flow past seals or it raises the pressure slightly and flows past the pressure valve. I made white plastic shields to give the rams sun protection and this largely stops the sag on our van. (Detail in link below inc. pictures)

Potential roof problem

We had a problem with our roof this time last year resulting in a replacement electro-hydraulic pump. Since then roof has never budged 1mm even after being up for days. This holiday we have noticed roof sinks on passenger side corner after one day. Drop roof 12 inches, put it back up and it’s...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Vantastic2]

Hi, I’ve been away for 4 nights and all good with Cali. When lowering the roof and checking around it I noticed the passenger side was much lower than the other side. This was front and back of the roof. I raised it up again and lowered it again and all good and level. Something I did notice this camping trip was the roof motor/pump turned on for around 20 seconds last night so I’m assuming roof had dropped slightly and the pump automatically turned on and put it back up. Should I be worried or is this normal? I’ve just tried the roof again now I’m home and all good and level when putting up and down.

When we had our cali (2013-2020) this happened to us!
Was a bit scary at the time when your upstairs sleeping and hear the pump sounding thinking the roof coming down on us. We told dealer on next service and did we get any joy? So it looks like typical VW still have not addressed this problem.
When lowering roof I stayed inside and my (Copilot-the wife) ran around van checking it as it's lowered without the canvas being caught as not long having van it came down on one side caught canvas, slight buckle in roof near sizzors and slight nip in canvas so beware it is another VW fault they won't admit to as another member found out.
if I could turned the clock back I would have bought something else with a hard top!

 

[Vantastic2]

I’ve got a similar issue with my 2015 T5.1 California which is what made me take notice of this thread. Looking back at the numerous complaints I can see that no one has actually figured out what’s going on and it appears it’s a very common issue so I’m going to stick my neck out and offer some suggestions.
Firstly my training was in the RAF (1960 era) as an Aircraft Technician which involved hydraulics among many other things. Based on the excellent training and experience from designing and building my own hydraulic leverage systems I can see two possibilities. The first and most obvious is that there isn’t a direct torque link bar between both hydraulic rams to ensure they both extend together. The lever raising mechanism simply isn’t robust enough to prevent twisting and therefore preventing one ram operation faster than the other.
The second which I’m uncertain about (because I’ve not found the need to investigate further) is whether or not each ram is connected to an electrical circuit that monitors the extension of each ram and therefore controls it to retain equilibrium.
In the first instance I can’t see a viable way to implement a torque bar between each ram so the second option seems more favourable.
In my experience, when electronics are needed to control ram extensions then it almost makes sense to use an electronic ram such as linear actuator but they cost significantly more than hydraulics.
Without a balancing device this is a poor design.
So far I’ve found it difficult to find any meaningful information about the components on my California mainly because they seem to change components as they went along; fuse circuits for example.
Does anyone know for certain if the hydraulic rams are independently operated by separate pumps or a common pump. If independent then are they electrically monitored so they can be controlled.
If there’s nothing built into this design then it’s highly probable a simple electronic balancing circuit with sensors could be built.
I’m very interested to see how they designed this function especially if there’s a simple solution to be found.
Meanwhile I’ll continue to monitor my pop up roof with utmost caution being aware I’m not alone which I can honestly say to my wife who thinks I did something wrong
Kind regards to all

Nice one, very interesting facts. My wife's father (now deceased) did same job as you but before 1960.
He would have told me his thoughts on this pump and would have stripped it down.

 

[Vantastic2]

I typed Sizzors not as Scissors, thinking of pubs again LOL

 

[donboon]

Nice one, very interesting facts. My wife's father (now deceased) did same job as you but before 1960.
He would have told me his thoughts on this pump and would have stripped it down.

Maybe he served his apprenticeship at same place, R.A.F. Halton.

 

[donboon]

The system is driven by one pump, the left and right circuits have their own separate pressure check valve.

The rams have Hall sensors that are effectively limit switches that are triggered when the Rams are fully extended (or very close) - The system operates based on both switches being true to confirm roof up or down, but the trigger for the pump to auto run and repressure is based on one switch and timer. When you put the roof up, when the open limit switches are reached, the roof pump will continue to run (even with finger off button) until the pump electrical current reaches the point that is aligned to the system being fully pressurised.

My personal observation is that for me the roof sag is directly linked to strong sun on one side or the other during the day and that side will drop slightly overnight as it cools. I believe is the high temp either allows the fluid to flow past seals or it raises the pressure slightly and flows past the pressure valve. I made white plastic shields to give the rams sun protection and this largely stops the sag on our van. (Detail in link below inc. pictures)

Potential roof problem

We had a problem with our roof this time last year resulting in a replacement electro-hydraulic pump. Since then roof has never budged 1mm even after being up for days. This holiday we have noticed roof sinks on passenger side corner after one day. Drop roof 12 inches, put it back up and it’s...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[donboon]

Thank you for your observations, they really help put light onto this matter.
I’ll try to add more later