T5 180 biturbo problems

[Hamish74440]

Hello
I’m currently trying to sell my LHD (Im in France) 2013 T5 180 biturbo with 120000km. I had no idea about the potential EGR / cooler problem. It was on for 41k which is slightly under average prices here.
Full VW service history
Not one symptom of the problem eg smoke, oil and coolant usage, loss of power etc. Still it seems no one wants to touch it or offers 20k because « their going to have to replace the engine «

I’d just like anyone’s input if they have actual experience of this either in your own van or say as a mechanic ? I know the internet always seems to exaggerate the bad points and no one ever posts anything if their van is running properly
Many thanks
Hamish

 

[Alexlex85]

This topic ha already been covered . use the search function.
But to sum it up , you need a brand new engine.

 

[Hamish74440]

Thanks. I’ve already read many of the threads concerning this but to say that “I need a brand new engine “ is perhaps over exaggerating the situation? I have none of the “classic” symptoms . Does this really happen to every van?

 

[pjm-84]

Hasn't happened to mine, because I monitored it and stopped it. Even with annual 7 to 8k oil changes, flushes, premium fuel and long journeys, the aluminum content in the oil was too high. With no fix on the horizon and the jury still out on the D cooler, I emulator-ed the cooler at 42k miles, and watched the aluminum content drop away. Now on 91k.

 

[Hamish74440]

Thank you for the info. I’m definitely selling mine as new van has been bought. I’m just weighing up pros and cons of selling it to a dealer offering 29k or doing the work and potentially getting more . I suspect it’s a no brainer. The problem in France is the “vice caché” (hidden defects) clause which protects buyers and as a seller it’s not something you can avoid. Claims can be made even if you the seller knew nothing about the problem. Sold as seen does not exist

 

[pjm-84]

Dealer and enjoy the T7

 

[vmaxkiddy]

Get an oil analysis carried out to see how much, if any, aluminium is present, if there is I’d also get a compression test done and take it from there.

 

[sbmcd]

I sold my 180 in Nov 24 to a friend. I was sure that the EGR issue was not present on my engine as I had annual oil test results showing aluminium levels were low and not an issue.

Engine had done 150 K, when I found out about the EGR issue I blanked the EGR and fitted an emulator but the engine had done over 100 k when I did that.

My oil services were always at 10k or 12 months.

Have your oil tested, a good result may help sell your van.

 

[vdub_cali]

VW should have owned up to this issue.
My 2013 van has 110,000 miles, EGR blanked and emulator fitted at 80,000 after a Millers Oil Test confirmed high Aluminium content, compression test was within tolerance and no oil usage. Now changing the oil every 5,000 miles.

 

[WelshGas]

VW should have owned up to this issue.
My 2013 van has 110,000 miles, EGR blanked and emulator fitted at 80,000 after a Millers Oil Test confirmed high Aluminium content, compression test was within tolerance and no oil usage. Now changing the oil every 5,000 miles.

Why?
My 2014 180 covered 150,000 miles on original EGR. 0mls oil usage between annual services when sold, at 10 yrs. Still going strong and still 0mls oil usage so I have been informed.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Why?
My 2014 180 covered 150,000 miles on original EGR. 0mls oil usage between annual services when sold, at 10 yrs. Still going strong and still 0mls oil usage so I have been informed.

I recall that you posted about having your original EGR replaced at 900 miles with one with no suffix. Sounds like VW knew what was up, and you dodged a bullet.

 

[WelshGas]

I recall that you posted about having your original EGR replaced at 900 miles with one with no suffix. Sounds like VW knew what was up, and you dodged a bullet.

Yes, so a 2014 EGR, and in fact it was the valve not the whole assembly, due to an electrical fault. So it was on the vehicle for 140,000 + miles , but the EGR cooler was original.
I don’t see what “ bullet” I dodged.

 

[Alexlex85]

Yes, so a 2014 EGR, and in fact it was the valve not the whole assembly, due to an electrical fault. So it was on the vehicle for 140,000 + miles , but the EGR cooler was original.
I don’t see what “ bullet” I dodged.

By this stage, I think it’s fair to say there have been a significant number of engine failures linked to the EGR cooler , mine included, along with many others reported on this forum, online, on other t5 forums, Facebook groups, by engine builders, and pretty sure in technical bulletins too. VW were already on the fourth revision of this component, which says a lot.

In fact, the CFCA engine was significantly cheaper than other four cylinder diesel engines, and VW were offering it on an exchange basis seemingly as an attempt to patcha plaster over a much larger bleading wound.

The fact that yours has lasted this long is surprising. Even so, I would still strongly consider doing something about it.

 

[WelshGas]

By this stage, I think it’s fair to say there have been a significant number of engine failures linked to the EGR cooler , mine included, along with many others reported on this forum, online, on other t5 forums, Facebook groups, by engine builders, and pretty sure in technical bulletins too. VW were already on the fourth revision of this component, which says a lot.

In fact, the CFCA engine was significantly cheaper than other four cylinder diesel engines, and VW were offering it on an exchange basis seemingly as an attempt to patcha plaster over a much larger bleading wound.

The fact that yours has lasted this long is surprising. Even so, I would still strongly consider doing something about it.

Are you aware of the VW TPI regarding the 2010/2011 CFCA engine?
Yes, aluminium particles in the oil from the EGR cooler damages the cylinder bore, BUT, and no one has answered this one question “ What causes the EGR oil cooler to breakdown? “.
Is it the alloy, used in many such components on other engines, the oil, used in many other engines, excess heat, driving style, poor servicing etc:
No one has answered this question. There are at least 4 versions of the EGR valve/cooler and there are reports of breakdown on each version.
BUT, and this is the big question Why are some high milage 180s not affected?

Is the EGR the cause or a symptom? The fact that the problem is not replicated across ALL 180s leads me to suspect the EGR breakdown is a symptom not the cause.

 

[Alexlex85]

Are you aware of the VW TPI regarding the 2010/2011 CFCA engine?
Yes, aluminium particles in the oil from the EGR cooler damages the cylinder bore, BUT, and no one has answered this one question “ What causes the EGR oil cooler to breakdown? “.
Is it the alloy, used in many such components on other engines, the oil, used in many other engines, excess heat, driving style, poor servicing etc:
No one has answered this question. There are at least 4 versions of the EGR valve/cooler and there are reports of breakdown on each version.
BUT, and this is the big question Why are some high milage 180s not affected?

Is the EGR the cause or a symptom? The fact that the problem is not replicated across ALL 180s leads me to suspect the EGR breakdown is a symptom not the cause.

Not going to get you much closer to the answer but poor design where not all factors have been considered during design stage as in material selection or bench testing.

If id be a betting man id say that an engine which has seen less heat cycles and often coolant and oil changes could last longer regardless of mileage. But then I'm not a betting man.

 

[Black Forest]

Back to the OP who is looking to sell, I think the problem, irrespective of symptoms or not with your van is the reputation created by those with that engine which have failed.

Despite what you experienced and said, the perception of imminent and almost guaranteed failure will have depressed the need and also the prices across the board with private and dealer buyers. People will be factoring in a mahoosive repair bill even if your van is spotless and issue free. The reputation affects everyone.

And if I am honest, I ruled that year / motor out of my buying equasion based on track record, and reputation. Rolling the dice with a cash sum that big was something I didn't want to do.

EDIT: @Hamish74440 to lift the sale a bit and get some interest, consider replacing the EGR for the most up to date version and have the bill that says that. Spending to get this done may give confidence that everything is sound... even though it may not actually need doing it may be the confidence booster someone needs to buy your van. Your bill may actually repay itself with an elevated price...

 

[sbmcd]

Back to the OP who is looking to sell, I think the problem, irrespective of symptoms or not with your van is the reputation created by those with that engine which have failed.

Despite what you experienced and said, the perception of imminent and almost guaranteed failure will have depressed the need and also the prices across the board with private and dealer buyers. People will be factoring in a mahoosive repair bill even if your van is spotless and issue free. The reputation affects everyone.

And if I am honest, I ruled that year / motor out of my buying equasion based on track record, and reputation. Rolling the dice with a cash sum that big was something I didn't want to do.

Agreed, that's why my new California is a 150.

 

[Hamish74440]

Thanks for all your help and replies. I’ve let it go to a dealer. The « hidden defects » clause on vehicles sales between individuals is a nightmare in France and buyers have comeback even if you know nothing about the problem at the time of sale. If I had been keeping it I would have had all the necessary tests done and replaced the EGR. I’m sorry to see it go in this way as I had imagined excited new owners driving away on their own adventures ….