Sagging roof issues 2022 Ocean

[dspuk]

Over in Spain at the moment and had the sagging issue (van as well….)

Although sceptical when reading the recommendation I thought “what’s to lose”, so put the roof up/down the required 5 times. This morning I woke up and no sag - its a miracle

All down to fluid dynamics and air. While I think a some older issues seem to have been caused by swarf in the system, and there was a scouse who was going to beat us all up outside but looked to have genuine delivery issues, I’m convinced the general issue is people just don’t realise that no hydraulic system can ever be 100% airtight and over time small amounts of air will be introduced and build up in the system.

So you pop the top up when it’s warm and the air bubbles are in and part of the fluid, so no major issues, but when it cools down on a night the bubbles collapse causing the sag.

The up and down 5x basically circulates oil around in and out of the pistons enough times to release that built up air via filtration.

Do that once or twice a year and bob’s yr uncle.

Now I’m not technically a hydraulic engineer, so please feel free anyone to tweak, but as a mechanic I did used to look after air powered Hysters in the Army on Ammo dumps and air was the bane of our life.

 

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In my opinion, the problem is related to the oil—there’s debris in the pump, and the check valve is letting oil leak out little by little, causing the sunroof to drop.
I think changing the oil will fix the problem.

But I’m not confident about doing it myself, and I’m even less confident about letting VW do it...

 

[dspuk]

In my opinion, the problem is related to the oil—there’s debris in the pump, and the check valve is letting oil leak out little by little, causing the sunroof to drop.
I think changing the oil will fix the problem.

But I’m not confident about doing it myself, and I’m even less confident about letting VW do it...

That’s a very specific problem that could be true and could affect 20% - but the most common issue though will be air in the system and likely cover 80% of peoples concerns. Those that did change the oil and it fixed the issue may also have just ended up with a air free system due to the oil change and changing the oil specifically did not fix the issue, removing the air did (which you can do with the 5x fix).

 

[gbtn]

That’s a very specific problem that could be true and could affect 20% - but the most common issue though will be air in the system and likely cover 80% of peoples concerns. Those that did change the oil and it fixed the issue may also have just ended up with a air free system due to the oil change and changing the oil specifically did not fix the issue, removing the air did (which you can do with the 5x fix).

Air in the system means a leak where the air is able to enter so we should see oil somewhere.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

It was a dodgy batch of pumps. The new ones don't sag. Nor did the old ones!!!

 

[dspuk]

Air in the system means a leak where the air is able to enter so we should see oil somewhere.

Sorry, but that is a fundamental misunderstanding of how closed hydraulic systems and pressure zones work. I said air in the system, not a leak, which is generally introduced through the suction side of the system.

Additionally, as air molecules are smaller than oil molecules they can (more) easily come in while oil will not leak out.

 

[gbtn]

Sorry, but that is a fundamental misunderstanding of how closed hydraulic systems and pressure zones work. I said air in the system, not a leak, which is generally introduced through the suction side of the system.

Additionally, as air molecules are smaller than oil molecules they can (more) easily come in while oil will not leak out.

I don't pretend to be an expert.

I just try to understand also. And why when temperature (or sun is directly on it ?)

 

[gbtn]

It was a dodgy batch of pumps. The new ones don't sag. Nor did the old ones!!!

How to prove or check this as they always hide them with the note.

 

[WelshGas]

Air in the system means a leak where the air is able to enter so we should see oil somewhere.

If you checked/viewed the hydraulic fluid tank you would notice it is not totally full of fluid there is an air/hydraulic fluid interface. So there is already air in the system.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

How to prove or check this as they always hide them with the note.

Pay for a replacement at somewhere like Kernow Transporters and you'll find the latest ones don't sag.

I believe the latest iteration is manufactured in Turkey and carries a much smaller price tag than the original ones.

 

[Up10]

It was a dodgy batch of pumps. The new ones don't sag. Nor did the old ones!!!

Definitely in our case. After trying the 5x roof up down routine and looking a complete idiot on site, our roof still sagged. So the local VW dealer changed the pump under warranty and the roof hasn't sagged since. We were just commenting on this, sitting in our van over the weekend!

 

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Last week, I talk with an t6.1 2024 owner and his roof was sagging a lot. If they change the faulty pump with a faulty one…

My dealer (France), say it’s normal. The documentation mentions this case, and they loop on the 20cm in 3 days but as the auto-tension works, it never happens…
So I’m stuck.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Last week, I talk with an t6.1 2024 owner and his roof was sagging a lot. If they change the faulty pump with a faulty one…

My dealer (France), say it’s normal. The documentation mentions this case, and they loop on the 20cm in 3 days but as the auto-tension works, it never happens…
So I’m stuck.

Yep. The whole thing is rubbish. Have a look at my experience here. I've given up trying to get VW to fix stuff...

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...ng-bellows-roof-poptop-tpi.56210/#post-728126

 

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Yep. The whole thing is rubbish. Have a look at my experience here. I've given up trying to get VW to fix stuff...

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...ng-bellows-roof-poptop-tpi.56210/#post-728126

That’s my case with a 2021 one.
I have ton of small issues. It’s very complicated to deal with the local VW. I’m able to have some compensation on all my issues with VW France HQ but always complicated with the dealer and I don’t trust them…
So… I was unable to find someone to do the change here.

 

[gbtn]

Pay for a replacement at somewhere like Kernow Transporters and you'll find the latest ones don't sag.

I believe the latest iteration is manufactured in Turkey and carries a much smaller price tag than the original ones.

I just get a quote from a local garage specialized in Combi and VW Van. I'm thinking it little by little. My fear is that it won't solve the problem because i discussed with 2024 owners with the same issue...

I can't do anymore with Official VW Dealer