ID Buzz - Cancelled Order...

[RetroRed5]

Afternoon all,

Being somewhat of a petrol head (and diesel since I own a diesel Cali), I've resisted EV's for a long time; I was almost lured over the the EV world when VW originally launched the ID Buzz, but I continued to resist.

Then with the launch of the GTX, I could resist no longer and went ahead an ordered a factory new ID Buzz GTX SWB 6-Seat in Silver over Red back in the summer.

Then came yesterdays budget.

Now of course I am well aware that even at 3p per mile in addition to normal VED, the Buzz would still be cheaper to run than any petrol or diesel vehicle, but the whole thing just doesn't sit well with me (for many reasons); plus for the first time, in my driving career, I'd own a car that costs considerably more to tax each year than it would to insure; add to this the possible direction this whole "EV per mile" thing could go in, and the crippling depreciation on EVs, then it was too much for me, so I reluctantly cancelled my order this morning. Interestingly, whilst the dealer was of course disappointed, they said they were not at all surprised (so I'm guessing I'm not the first).

I'm wondering, has anyone else has done the same, or is considering the same?

Cheers.

 

[pchmlk]

I can’t see why a small annual charge would make the slightest difference. It’s probably 2-300 quid for most people.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

Afternoon all,

Being somewhat of a petrol head (and diesel since I own a diesel Cali), I've resisted EV's for a long time; I was almost lured over the the EV world when VW originally launched the ID Buzz, but I continued to resist.

Then with the launch of the GTX, I could resist no longer and went ahead an ordered a factory new ID Buzz GTX SWB 6-Seat in Silver over Red back in the summer.

Then came yesterdays budget.

Now of course I am well aware that even at 3p per mile in addition to normal VED, the Buzz would still be cheaper to run than any petrol or diesel vehicle, but the whole thing just doesn't sit well with me (for many reasons); plus for the first time, in my driving career, I'd own a car that costs considerably more to tax each year than it would to insure; add to this the possible direction this whole "EV per mile" thing could go in, and the crippling depreciation on EVs, then it was too much for me, so I reluctantly cancelled my order this morning. Interestingly, whilst the dealer was of course disappointed, they said they were not at all surprised (so I'm guessing I'm not the first).

I'm wondering, has anyone else has done the same, or is considering the same?

Cheers.

I leased a new Model Y Tesla last year and was disgusted when I had to pay £195 tax last month, plus to hear of the proposed 3p per mile EV tax, it's just galling! I concur that using a home charger and the overnight Octopus 7p per kWh tariff, still will work out cheaper overall, as well as the superior driving experience, but I will look closely at 55 mpg+ PHEVs that I can plug in and run on electricity without the ppm charge, such as the Renault Austral again --> https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...&calc-mileage=10000&calc-selected-product=PCP

How are we ever going to stop using Polar Bear killing fossil fuels when we are penalised for doing the right thing and going green? Reeves has lost the plot, methinks.

 

[RetroRed5]

I can’t see why a small annual charge would make the slightest difference. It’s probably 2-300 quid for most people.

You are quite right, in the grand scheme of things, the extra few hundred quid doesn't really make a great deal of difference; many folks won't be in the least bit bothered about this, but I'm sure there will be plenty who are troubled.

Perhaps it shouldn't bother me, but for several reasons, it does, not least of which are...

1. When I decided to finally take a plunge and order an EV, additional per mile tax was not on the cards, so the TCO calcs I did at the time are now incorrect.

2. Having a "flat rate" for all EV's is I think not an especially fair way to do it; with an ICE you at least have some control over what you pay in terms of tax at the pump because you get to decide how heavy your right foot is, what size car to buy, how big the engine is...etc; all things that can directly affect how much tax you pay based on MPG, with a flat EV rate, you have no choice.

3. In reality, how is this going to be policed/monitored? It could lead to greater government control and more behaviour altering taxation which doesn't sit well with me. Besides, I feel that I already pay enough tax on almost every aspect of my life.

4. What about driving the vehicle outside of the UK? Will this lead to a further double taxation? Who knows at this point.

5. Had the budget announced that VED for EV's was being scrapped and to be replaced with this new EVED, then that would have been better, but to ask people to now pay twice so soon after introducing VED on EV's doesn't sit well with me either.

6. At a time when in my opinion the government should really be trying to continue to incentivise the move to EV, they decide to penalise those who want to go green, again doesn't sit well with me.

7. As with any decision you may or may not make, there comes a tipping point somewhere; for me, it's the 3p per mile on top of normal VED (plus the Premium VED which applies to an ID Buzz); for some it might be 6p; let's say we are now at 3p per mile, as you say, that's only 2 or 3 hundred extra to pay per year; but then in a couple of years it becomes 6p per mile, well at that point its still only another 2 or 3 hundred quid a year relative to the year before. The point at which it makes a "difference" is going to differ, person to person.

8. Assuming £300 for the new EVED, the combined tax payable per year for the ID Buzz GTX works out at £195 VED + £425 Premium Vehicle VED + £300 EVED = £920 - which is ultimately more tax than I'm happy to pay for the privilege of owning an ID Buzz.

Of course, there are other factors at play aside from the new EVED tax, I'd say the heavy depreciation is the other.

 

[RetroRed5]

I leased a new Model Y Tesla last year and was disgusted when I had to pay £195 tax last month, plus to hear of the proposed 3p per mile EV tax, it's just galling! I concur that using a home charger and the overnight Octopus 7p per kWh tariff, still will work out cheaper overall, as well as the superior driving experience, but I will look closely at 55 mpg+ PHEVs that I can plug in and run on electricity without the ppm charge, such as the Renault Austral again --> https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202510217315898?sort=price-asc&twcs=true&searchId=c96bedf1-804a-4713-9d0e-398fe4bcd3f4&aggregatedTrim=iconic+esprit+Alpine&make=Renault&model=Austral&page=1&postcode=B64+5LL&advertising-location=at_cars&fromsra=&backLinkQueryParams=aggregatedTrim=iconic%20esprit%20Alpine&channel=cars&make=Renault&model=Austral&postcode=B64%205LL&sort=price-asc&flrfc=1&calc-deposit=2256&calc-term=48&calc-mileage=10000&calc-selected-product=PCP

How are we ever going to stop using Polar Bear killing fossil fuels when we are penalised for doing the right thing and going green? Reeves has lost the plot, methinks.

PHEV's are included in the pay per mile tax, albeit at a lower rate than a full EV; for any PHEV the charge will be 1.5p per mile.

I don't recall seeing anything in the budget about MHEV's though, so maybe those have escaped it.

 

[Meoncoast]

If you wanted a Buzz cancelling for 3p per mile in my view is shooting yourself in the foot,

 

[Stargazing]

Confidence in purchasing an EV has now likely taken a big hit, with high intial prices, massive depreciation and the likelihood that some vehicles may end up being 'tampered' with, makes it a no goer for me.

 

[RetroRed5]

Also for me the driving experience of an EV beats ICE, and maintenance costs are close to zero over a 4 year period (just tyres).

I agree; I had the pleasure of driving an ID Buzz earlier this year for a few weeks (it was a courtesy vehicle provided by VW while they worked on my Cali) and I found it was great to drive

 

[RetroRed5]

If you wanted a Buzz cancelling for 3p per mile in my view is shooting yourself in the foot,

Quite possibly; perhaps when March rolls around (when I was due to take delivery) I will regret my decision, but for now, whilst I'm disappointed, I feel it was the right decision for me.

 

[vbk1975]

PHEV's are included in the pay per mile tax, albeit at a lower rate than a full EV; for any PHEV the charge will be 1.5p per mile.

I don't recall seeing anything in the budget about MHEV's though, so maybe those have escaped it.

MHEVs (Mild Hybrids) whilst they generate, store & use small amounts of electricity they are purely powered by Petrol/Diesel and therefore captured by the existing fuel duty.

 

[andyinluton]

Expect the mileage tax will also be introduced on petrol / diesel in the long run to raise more funds. The new government seem too enjoy charging ‘the rich’ (hard workers) more…they can afford it after all.

They already charge per mile effectively for petrol & diesel by the duty thats paid on fuel.
I don't see why electric vehicles should be exempt from a similar charge.

The only thing I would like to see is how foreign mileage is dealt with & similarly how about taxing cars from abroad.

 

[RetroRed5]

They already charge per mile effectively for petrol & diesel by the duty thats paid on fuel.
I don't see why electric vehicles should be exempt from a similar charge.

The only thing I would like to see is how foreign mileage is dealt with & similarly how about taxing cars from abroad.

I kind of agree, however, fuel duty (and VAT) is not a charge on driving, nor is it used to fund road maintenance, it is a charge on the fuel you use; whereas VED and the new EVED is meant to be a charge on driving to help fund road maintenance.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I leased a new Model Y Tesla last year and was disgusted when I had to pay £195 tax last month, plus to hear of the proposed 3p per mile EV tax, it's just galling! I concur that using a home charger and the overnight Octopus 7p per kWh tariff, still will work out cheaper overall, as well as the superior driving experience, but I will look closely at 55 mpg+ PHEVs that I can plug in and run on electricity without the ppm charge, such as the Renault Austral again --> https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202510217315898?sort=price-asc&twcs=true&searchId=c96bedf1-804a-4713-9d0e-398fe4bcd3f4&aggregatedTrim=iconic+esprit+Alpine&make=Renault&model=Austral&page=1&postcode=B64+5LL&advertising-location=at_cars&fromsra=&backLinkQueryParams=aggregatedTrim=iconic%20esprit%20Alpine&channel=cars&make=Renault&model=Austral&postcode=B64%205LL&sort=price-asc&flrfc=1&calc-deposit=2256&calc-term=48&calc-mileage=10000&calc-selected-product=PCP

How are we ever going to stop using Polar Bear killing fossil fuels when we are penalised for doing the right thing and going green? Reeves has lost the plot, methinks.

There’s a PPM charge for Hybrids as well.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

3p per mile from 2028!?

If you order one by then with the impending banning of ICE, you will have missed the 3 years without the 3ppm!!

 

[andyinluton]

I kind of agree, however, fuel duty (and VAT) is not a charge on driving, nor is it used to fund road maintenance, it is a charge on the fuel you use; whereas VED and the new EVED is meant to be a charge on driving to help fund road maintenance.

Of course it's a charge on driving, you cant drive an IC vehicle without paying it.
The new EVED is intended to make up the shortfall in fuel duty receipts due to people using EVs

They are both taxes on motoring - what pot the money ends up in & how its spent is pretty irrelevant, VED isn't all spent on roads.

They could actually scrap the VED & just increase the pence per mile & up the fuel duty a bit.

The reduction in fuel duty receipts due to EVs has to be replaced with something.

Its a bit like the loss of duty on fags due to less smokers, lets put a tax on anything with sugar in it to replace it.

 

[willwander]

The only thing I would like to see is how foreign mileage is dealt with & similarly how about taxing cars from abroad.

Little black box? Linked to your digital ID it would help ‘keep children safe’ and tackle illegal immigration

 

[Wannabecamperman]

I can’t see why a small annual charge would make the slightest difference. It’s probably 2-300 quid for most people.

It's called a principle!

 

[pjm-84]

I can’t see why a small annual charge would make the slightest difference. It’s probably 2-300 quid for most people.

Its the principle.

I get tired of paying £500 / £800 / £122 / £33000 / £620 / £345 / £1100 / £456 / £3500 / £4899, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, on you worked 7 days, etc , etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,......... so was delighted to find out that the VED on a 3.8 ton motorhome is only £165 a year.

Just like most on here moan about dealer prices.

If I came to replace my 12year Volvo I would look to buy a second hand car with a £35 VED rate.

 

[2into1]

I thought I'd understood that "smart" home charging was partly being pushed so that the amount of electricity being used by car charging (Vs the washing machine) could be (1) established and therefore (2) taxed. That would have seemed to be a simpler route if it was possible, and would have encouraged more efficient ev's and lighter right foots. Did I make that up?

 

[willwander]

Our electrician said that there would soon be a approx £300 annual fee for exporting to the grid…not sure how true this is, but nothing surprises me anymore!

Home solar setups have become the latest middle-class flex, obvious target for a tax.

 

[pjm-84]

I had a great plan for dragons den. A hot hatch that sterilizes the occupants. The car is left unlocked on the street like a bait car, or provided under the mobility vehicle scheme. Voila.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

I had a great plan for dragons den. A hot hatch that sterilizes the occupants. The car is left unlocked on the street like a bait car, or provided under the mobility vehicle scheme. Voila.

We could use a fleet of them for young men leaving our prisons too.

 

[RetroRed5]

Fuel duty is a charge on "fuel usage", designed as a means of generating general purpose tax revenue, not specifically a charge on driving; of course in reality to folks like us, we use fossil fuels to move around, so it ends up being in effect something that feels like a charge on driving, but the idea behind fuel duty is to charge for the use of fossil fuels, regardless of application; and as is the case with any type of excise tax, it is often used as a way to alter behaviour, or rather discourage consumption. Consider for example the use of fossil fuel for heating, or in industry, in that case fuel is not being used for driving, it is being used to keep warm or make something, yet some form of duty (often at different rates) is still levied.

An EV does not (at the point of usage) use fossil fuel, hence no duty is charged on anything related to driving said EV, but as you say, this is creating a shortfall in tax revenue and so the government are looking for ways to plug that gap in terms of a general loss in tax revenue by picking on EV drivers and using them as the scape goat for the shortfall. The shortfall should really have been plugged (at least partially) by reducing spending rather than taxing every minutiae of people’s lives.

I totally agree that EV drivers should contribute a fair share toward road maintenance, which they do now since April this year with normal VED/Premium Car VED, but the argument that is it somehow unfair on us ICE drivers that EV drivers are not paying any fuel duty is fundamentally flawed.

 

[sidepod]

I think you lot should chill out, go to the pub. It’s Friday after all.

 

[RetroRed5]

I think you lot should chill out, go to the pub. It’s Friday after all.

I'm always chill
But that aint such a bad idea, especially given it's Friday