Do we go bigger ?

[DJ315]

We went from a Cali T5.1 to a Knaus Boxstar (6m) back to a Cali T6.1. For a reason: we figured we don't really need the larger van with two people. The drive of the Cali is sooo much better, and the versatility allows you to use it anywhere - and as a car. Impossible with the bigger ones.

 

[edocali]

Bigger but not TOO big? Here's your answer (yes its a Ford but looks very interesting)

The new Westfalia Kipling - a 4-seater camper van

The new Westfalia Kipling embodies a new way of travelling in freedom, with a layout concept that’s completely new for the brand.

westfalia-mobil.com

I actually saw it in this video...... (around 25:30)

I am tempted to go larger - my essentials are a large storage area and a poptop.
I am put off by the height - losing entrance in so many parking areas.
I've been thinking about 5.4m vans mainly, though this Westfalia Kipling is intriguing. I searched for videos and could not find how feasible is to sleep downstairs with the roof down. Looks like the vertical space is like that of a coffin !

 

[soulstyledevon]

We went from a Cali T5.1 to a Knaus Boxstar (6m) back to a Cali T6.1. For a reason: we figured we don't really need the larger van with two people. The drive of the Cali is sooo much better, and the versatility allows you to use it anywhere - and as a car. Impossible with the bigger ones.

We all kid ourselves…
Having ditched the California as a daily driver (vw vans 20+ years as a daily) the Cali is not a great daily.
It’s not the best daily and it’s not the best camper.

I much prefer my 335d touring as my daily over any VW bus.

 

[Scoobz1]

I am tempted to go larger - my essentials are a large storage area and a poptop.
I am put off by the height - losing entrance in so many parking areas.
I've been thinking about 5.4m vans mainly, though this Westfalia Kipling is intriguing. I searched for videos and could not find how feasible is to sleep downstairs with the roof down. Looks like the vertical space is like that of a coffin !

No bog - which for me would be one of the main benefits of a bigger van

 

[acer]

We all kid ourselves…
Having ditched the California as a daily driver (vw vans 20+ years as a daily) the Cali is not a great daily.
It’s not the best daily and it’s not the best camper.

I much prefer my 335d touring as my daily over any VW bus.

View attachment 147646

That might be right. However, while we’ve just got the Cali now, when I also owned a 3 series tourer, I’d always want to jump in the van. Odd isn’t it?

 

[chockswahay]

I love the relaxed and laid back ‘cruising’ in the van………….. and ‘ripping it up’ in our Mini Cooper S electric

 

[edocali]

Bigger but not TOO big? Here's your answer (yes its a Ford but looks very interesting)

The new Westfalia Kipling - a 4-seater camper van

The new Westfalia Kipling embodies a new way of travelling in freedom, with a layout concept that’s completely new for the brand.

westfalia-mobil.com

I went to see one at the dealership today. Nice but the downstairs bed is barely usable without raising the roof. Nice storage space and I loved the manual pop up roof. Very awkward position for the loo cassette.Nice cabin and kitchen.
I’d definitely have one over a T7 Cali.

But I won’t change my T6 Ocean for it.
I loved instead the 540 Columbus. Perfect spaces for my use. Thankfully they only had one without the popup so not tempting for me …

 

[Wannabecamperman]

I went to see one at the dealership today. Nice but the downstairs bed is barely usable without raising the roof.

Indeed. You can clearly see that the bed height is too high due to the cabinets underneath

 

[SteveGC]

I’ve progressed through a succession of vans to a Motorhome, (Hymer MLT 580 Crosstrail), and will never go back, it’s just BETTER in every possible way, I have a M135 as a daily driver which probably does less miles than my van nowadays….They are just epic and the MB Sprinter chassis with a 9G auto box and 190 bhp engine is effortless to drive…try one, I promise you’ll be impressed.

 

[acer]

I’ve progressed through a succession of vans to a Motorhome, (Hymer MLT 580 Crosstrail), and will never go back, it’s just BETTER in every possible way, I have a M135 as a daily driver which probably does less miles than my van nowadays….They are just epic and the MB Sprinter chassis with a 9G auto box and 190 bhp engine is effortless to drive…try one, I promise you’ll be impressed.

Probably not “better in every possible way”

 

[pjm-84]

Would tend to agree....the Burstner for camping is better in every way, but for flexibility, its a one trick pony.

 

[andyinluton]

Probably not “better in every possible way”

I think it is apart from:
Needing a c1 driving licence
Costing £60k more than an ocean
Only having 3 beds
Using more fuel
Lower speed limits
Not fitting in car parks

The important one, not having a big sliding door to let the outside in

It may be better than an Ocean when parked up camping but other than that an Ocean beats it hands down.

 

[acer]

I think it is apart from:
Needing a c1 driving licence
Costing £60k more than an ocean
Only having 3 beds
Using more fuel
Lower speed limits
Not fitting in car parks

The important one, not having a big sliding door to let the outside in

It may be better than an Ocean when parked up camping but other than that an Ocean beats it hands down.

The big sliding door is an Interesting observation that I hadn’t considered.
Also, I’ve just looked up the C1 driving licence and it seems like there’s a bit more to it than I had thought and probably likely needed for the bigger van that I would consider switching to, the Sven Hedin.

 

[Californication69]

The ideal way is to have both.
The 4 car garage at present is:
17 year old petrol manual Saab convertible.
2 year old D250 defender xs 7 seater
8 month old 4.4t 7.4m long, 2.2m wide Laika ecovip on a fiat maxis chassis. Drove it 2k miles a month ago and it handles like a dream. Have the air assist suspension on the rear. Weighing around 4t
Drove it like I stole it around the hairpin bends up to Bargemon in southern france.
It was honestly sublime.
And now a 2 week old 2.0d 150ps Cali Beach t7 which is for work.
I can’t see anything else I’ll need for the next 15 years tbh.
Apart from a BMW cafe bobber. But have no bike licence so that’s a no go.

 

[AJQ]

I'm struggling to understand the love for bigger vans but I'm sure it's related to stage of life, what you use the van for, who you're camping with etc. We love our 2019 ocean, it works brilliantly for us -2 adults, one Labrador dog. I can sort of see the attraction of the bathroom in bigger vans but really? We can fit a toilet in the space at the end of the bed for night time and during the day we use the campsite facilities. Ditto with showers - showering in a van doesn't seem great - you have to put the water into the van in the first place which leads to a precise showering experience - water on, water off, soap, water on and rinse etc feels a bit stressful. In vans with a fixed bed the seating area looks small, upright and uncomfortable compared with our ocean where we can sprawl. Ok we don't have a fixed bed but we can roll out the sleeping accomodation in less than five minutes. So having a fixed bed and a toilet isn't worth the switch for us, we don't use our van as a daily driver so that's not a consideration, but we love how easy it is in so many ways. And how comfortable it is. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, it depends on what you want from your van and how you use it - I just wanted to add a vote for the Ocean.

 

[Neuromancer11]

I'm also considering a 5.4m van as we are rapidly outgrowing the Cali with two kids getting bigger by the day, the 5.4 applies for two reasons to me, you can just about park it in a standard supermarket space (not that i have requirement for a daily) and it gives extra payload over a 6m van, as the poptop is a must it really affects the stuff you can bring (and we seem to have a lot of stuff for the four of us).

would love a Westfalia Columbus 540 but can't justify the £100k price tag, been looking at the lower end Hymer group options, Sunlight Cliff or Carado CV Pro, okay they aren't as good as the Westy, but cover 90+% for 70% of the price, also looked at a Globecar Summit Shine at the weekend, really liked it, but closer to 85k so midway option, the Carado is £72k before discounts etc... so just weighing up options

 

[pchmlk]

I'm also considering a 5.4m van as we are rapidly outgrowing the Cali with two kids getting bigger by the day, the 5.4 applies for two reasons to me, you can just about park it in a standard supermarket space (not that i have requirement for a daily) and it gives extra payload over a 6m van, as the poptop is a must it really affects the stuff you can bring (and we seem to have a lot of stuff for the four of us).

would love a Westfalia Columbus 540 but can't justify the £100k price tag, been looking at the lower end Hymer group options, Sunlight Cliff or Carado CV Pro, okay they aren't as good as the Westy, but cover 90+% for 70% of the price, also looked at a Globecar Summit Shine at the weekend, really liked it, but closer to 85k so midway option, the Carado is £72k before discounts etc... so just weighing up options

Took the words out of my mouth.

What I find baffling is the number of manufacturers out there doing the same thing.
I could draw a layout of a 5.4 van that applies to pretty much all of them and the finishes are similar in each too. Amazing the market tolerates this diversity given the low volumes sold. You’d think they’d all have a USP but by and large they really don’t.

 

[Blackbrogue1962]

We moved from an Ocean to a Columbus 540D with pop top in March. Delighted with the change, completely understand concerns over cost but we brought ours for around £90k which I’m sure could still be achieved if you’re prepared to wait until the sale season. After the first 5000 miles, I’d make the following observations:
- So far concerns over the Ducato base vehicle are misplaced, it’s been faultless, an enjoyable and relaxing drive on continental motorways and an average of 38 mpg.
- Fit and finish of the conversion is exemplary, no squeaks or rattles and no snags needing to be fixed.
- the Westphalia heating system with the winter pack (under floor heating), is excellent. Quiet, efficient and both diesel and electric.
- Pop top is huge and very comfortable.
- Placing of 2 way opening fridge accessible from inside and out is very practical.
- Other than height, you can take it anywhere a Cali could go within reason.

Yes it’s a lot of money but we’re happy and getting a lot of use of it.

 

[stoobthealien]

We moved from an Ocean to a Columbus 540D with pop top in March. Delighted with the change, completely understand concerns over cost but we brought ours for around £90k which I’m sure could still be achieved if you’re prepared to wait until the sale season. After the first 5000 miles, I’d make the following observations:
- So far concerns over the Ducato base vehicle are misplaced, it’s been faultless, an enjoyable and relaxing drive on continental motorways and an average of 38 mpg.
- Fit and finish of the conversion is exemplary, no squeaks or rattles and no snags needing to be fixed.
- the Westphalia heating system with the winter pack (under floor heating), is excellent. Quiet, efficient and both diesel and electric.
- Pop top is huge and very comfortable.
- Placing of 2 way opening fridge accessible from inside and out is very practical.
- Other than height, you can take it anywhere a Cali could go within reason.

Yes it’s a lot of money but we’re happy and getting a lot of use of it.

Did you add on all of the Fiat packs? My concern with moving to a van would be losing all the toys (auto climate, adaptive cruise, electric parking brake, traffic jam assist, etc) - all make long journeys that much easier!

 

[edocali]

Took the words out of my mouth.

What I find baffling is the number of manufacturers out there doing the same thing.
I could draw a layout of a 5.4 van that applies to pretty much all of them and the finishes are similar in each too. Amazing the market tolerates this diversity given the low volumes sold. You’d think they’d all have a USP but by and large they really don’t.

I keep browsing and one of the few differences is how large the rear garage can get to. I like raising beds more than folding ones.

Knaus and Adria are on my radar . But Adria doesn’t sell the 540 in the UK

 

[Neuromancer11]

yeah really liked the Knaus, in my spec its a £92k van though, the raising bed seems to slightly compromise the sleeping size, i do like it has a heater vent in the pop top though, the Weinsberg Carabus 540 is very similar to the Boxlife 540, but has a fixed rear bed but doesn't have a tambor door on the shower which i would prefer, oh and a shower curtain urgh.., its slightly cheaper than the Knaus but still mid to high 80 grand. Hence overall the Hymer options at £70k seem like good options, i don't mind compromising if there is a saving and £20-25k is a chunk of money, buys a nice little sports car accompaniment

 

[edocali]

i don't mind compromising if there is a saving and £20-25k is a chunk of money, buys a nice little sports car accompaniment

I understand perfectly, when I bought my pre-reg'd T6, the money I saved from buying a new T6.1
was equivalent to my 2nd car ... an MX-5

 

[Blackbrogue1962]

Did you add on all of the Fiat packs? My concern with moving to a van would be losing all the toys (auto climate, adaptive cruise, electric parking brake, traffic jam assist, etc) - all make long journeys that much easier!

It came with all the toys you mention, as well as a remote rear view mirror that is very useful. Honestly, the Ducato base vehicle is a lot better than people make out - though I accept that the finish of the dash is all hard plastic and commercial looking.

 

[Blackbrogue1962]

yeah really liked the Knaus, in my spec its a £92k van though, the raising bed seems to slightly compromise the sleeping size, i do like it has a heater vent in the pop top though, the Weinsberg Carabus 540 is very similar to the Boxlife 540, but has a fixed rear bed but doesn't have a tambor door on the shower which i would prefer, oh and a shower curtain urgh.., its slightly cheaper than the Knaus but still mid to high 80 grand. Hence overall the Hymer options at £70k seem like good options, i don't mind compromising if there is a saving and £20-25k is a chunk of money, buys a nice little sports car accompaniment

I was originally looking at the Knaus but when I saw it at the NEC show, the mechanism allowing the raising bed reduced the length of the bed to the extent that being 6’ tall there wasn’t really enough room to stretch out. The Columbus has a longer bed, although it does taper at the foot end - though I don’t find this an issue. Reviews I’ve read suggest the heating vent into the pop top doesn’t work well. A concern I’d have of the 70k Hymer vans is where the money’s been saved, again, I’ve read on reviews that there no insulation in them at all. But I agree it’s a big saving and well worth considering.

 

[Californication69]

It came with all the toys you mention, as well as a remote rear view mirror that is very useful. Honestly, the Ducato base vehicle is a lot better than people make out - though I accept that the finish of the dash is all hard plastic and commercial looking.

The 2025 Laika ecovip on a fiat maxi chassis really blew me away.
I was terrified I’d spent £100k on a fiat and not a Merc, although I couldn’t stretch the other £40k needed for a carthago.
So thought I’d settle for the fiat.
The handling up hairpin bends at 10pm at night whilst I was racing to get the the Bro-in-laws was sublime.
I have had the £1200 MAD air assist on the rear and it just keeps it planted.
In sport mode, it was brilliant.
Felt like that bloke driving the coach up the hairpin bends in The Italian Job.
The dashboard ain’t too bad, and the modifications I’ve done helps. (Added some 3” ducting from passenger footwell to drivers footwell, as drivers feet had no heating in the winter)
The air con is icy cold.
The front brakes are Brembo.
There’s nothing I can fault.