Should I get this van?

[Up10]

Again, this is not my understanding or experience. Any 4M owner will confirm that the vast majority of the time only the front 2 wheels are powered, by design to reduce emissions and consumption. Haldex AWD technology is a part-time AWD system that constantly keeps the rear driveshaft engaged, however, the differential it connects to remains inactive under normal driving conditions, as I mentioned.

So I guess we'll have to agree to differ, WG. The point is that for most UK drivers, 4WD is very rarely needed, thus doesn't justify the huge premium being charged on this thread's 22 plate, £67k van. In my view..

The OP is keen on Alps and Scandinavia and not just the UK. The Op also likes the greater bhp and it comes with 4wd.

So maybe the only potential issue is with the air suspension. This was not necessarily high on their wish list.

 

[WelshGas]

Again, this is not my understanding or experience. Any 4M owner will confirm that the vast majority of the time only the front 2 wheels are powered, by design to reduce emissions and consumption. Haldex AWD technology is a part-time AWD system that constantly keeps the rear driveshaft engaged, however, the differential it connects to remains inactive under normal driving conditions, as I mentioned.

So I guess we'll have to agree to differ, WG. The point is that for most UK drivers, 4WD is very rarely needed, thus doesn't justify the huge premium being charged on this thread's 22 plate, £67k van. In my view.

10 yrs with the VW 4Motion on my 180 I am more than aware of the capabilities so we will have to disagree.

 

[Black Forest]

With the 4M Haldex do we actually know when it engages? It may come into play more times than we think, maybe?

 

[WelshGas]

With the 4M Haldex do we actually know when it engages? It may come into play more times than we think, maybe?

It is always active.

4MOTION All-Wheel-Drive Technology | VW Vans

Explore the Volkswagen’s 4MOTION technology, designed to maintain traction while off-road with improved road holding and safety in poor surface conditions

www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk

 

[pchmlk]

Again, this is not my understanding or experience. Any 4M owner will confirm that the vast majority of the time only the front 2 wheels are powered, by design to reduce emissions and consumption. Haldex AWD technology is a part-time AWD system that constantly keeps the rear driveshaft engaged, however, the differential it connects to remains inactive under normal driving conditions, as I mentioned.

So I guess we'll have to agree to differ, WG. The point is that for most UK drivers, 4WD is very rarely needed, thus doesn't justify the huge premium being charged on this thread's 22 plate, £67k van. In my view.

You say all that as if it’s a bad thing. Surely adaptive power distribution is a benefit?

 

[sidepod]

Classic WG, argue black is white till the cows come home.

 

[WelshGas]

Classic WG, argue black is white till the cows come home.

Just linking to what VW publish. With your mighty intellect it’s a wonder you haven’t explained how it works and how it is not classed as AWD when it is always active.

 

[Black Forest]

I'm really not here for an argument or VW marketing sematics but
Permanent = it's there all the time ?
Active = it works when needed ?

A shifty google without VW marketing
The Volkswagen California primarily uses a Haldex-based 4MOTION all-wheel-drive system, which is designed for transverse engines. This system automatically controls and delivers power to all four wheels, functioning primarily as a front-wheel-drive vehicle under normal conditions to save fuel, but engaging the rear axle in milliseconds when slip is detected. [1, 2]
Key Aspects of the 4MOTION System on the California:

• Haldex Clutch: The system uses a high-performance, electronically controlled Haldex multi-disc clutch, generally the 5th generation on the T6/T6.1 models.
• Automatic Operation: 4MOTION reacts to the slightest wheel slip and distributes power to the wheels with the most grip without driver intervention.

Which is how I understood it works. FWD mainly then automagically engaging at the rear but, hey ho...

 

[Kingfisher]

Do you think the van air suspension system - it is full air and does include the self levelling function - do you think it will put potential buyers off in the event of me selling the van down the line?

The air suspension will put off some buyers, but it will also attract others. Ads for vans with air suspension typically include photos of the van being completely level with two wheels up a curb, or at an attractive but very uneven camping spot... The levelling function can be a major selling point.

It is really up to the buyer to decide what works for them, what is of value to them. That will be different for all of us. I don't think you need to worry about not finding a buyer at future resale. The added value premium of the air suspension might eventually depreciate somewhat as it ages, though.

 

[Black Forest]

4Motion / 4Motion and diff lock.

I found this interesting. Make sure you check the small image bottom left. It helps understand whats going on and which wheels are on rollers.
EDL = Electronic Diff Lock / Haldex i assume
Diff Lock = mechanical lock on the rear axle which is the other option.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

^^^^what @SusiBus says

 

[Bear]

$Motion / 4Motion and diff lock.

I found this interesting. Make sure you check the small image bottom left. It helps understand whats going on and which wheels are on rollers.
EDL = Electronic Diff Lock / Haldex i assume
Diff Lock = mechanical lock on the rear axle which is the other option.

The van has the mechanical diff lock on the rear axle which is a factory option.

 

[Bear]

It may affect resaleability. Your question reminded me of the time I was considering trading in my T6 for a 6.1 being sold by a VW main dealer. The dealer asked if I had full service history for the VB air system. I recommend that you ask the seller for the full service history for the system (ideally done at yearly intervals).

Also, for more info on my previous Cali's VB air suspension system, see my post at https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/vb-air-suspension.42843/

Thanks. I’ve had a look at a detailed video online of A&E leisure fitting VB full air with self levelling and the emergency inflation valves to a T6 California. After the factory suspension coils are removed, a part needs to be cut off so that the new air bags can fit. The new air bags are actually glued on rather than bolted into place. This I was surprised about. The installation takes three days and looks very complex.

 

[Bear]

The OP is keen on Alps and Scandinavia and not just the UK. The Op also likes the greater bhp and it comes with 4wd.

So maybe the only potential issue is with the air suspension. This was not necessarily high on their wish list.

Exactly. I did not mean for anyone to have an argument over 4motion!

 

[pjm-84]

I have the Haldex system on the Volvo and the only time I needed it, I thought it was poor. Think of it this way, grip, no grip, grip, no grip, grip, no grip...........when it senses a loss of grip (in our case fresh snow), it goes into AWD, then it decides you don't need it as its no longer slipping, so drops back into FWD, then says hang on you do need it, no you don't, yes you do , no you don't. 30mph / straight road and the conditions constant...........................just didn't suit the Haldex system

 

[Wannabecamperman]

I have the Haldex system on the Volvo and the only time I needed it, I thought it was poor. Think of it this way, grip, no grip, grip, no grip, grip, no grip...........when it senses a loss of grip (in our case fresh snow), it goes into AWD, then it decides you don't need it as its no longer slipping, so drops back into FWD, then says hang on you do need it, no you don't, yes you do , no you don't. 30mph / straight road and the conditions constant...........................just didn't suit the Haldex system

This is precisely my understanding of Haldex. Permanent monitoring but only actually driving the rear wheels when slip is detected.

 

[WelshGas]

This is precisely my understanding of Haldex. Permanent monitoring but only actually driving the rear wheels when slip is detected.

If that is the case can you explain the following?

FWD the front tyres wear quicker than the rear as they do the steering and drive.
On my 4Motion over 140 000 miles tyre wear was equal front to rear. This indicates to me that traction was applied across both axles as VW states a 60/40 split in normal use and variable in abnormal conditions when more power is directed to the axle with best traction.

 

[sidepod]

4Motion explanation and how it works.

Before delving too deeply into 4MOTION, understand that there are two different versions, one for VW models equipped with longitudinal drivetrains, such as the Phaeton and Touareg, and another for those VW models with transverse engines, including Jetta and Passat and T5. Phaeton and Touareg...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[sidepod]

My understanding is only VW vehicles with longitudinal engines use a Torsen diff which provides 60/40 torque split. All the transverse engine vehicles use Haldex which is an on-demand system. I’ve had 5 old school Quattros in the past that were all longitudinal engines with torsen diffs. I thinks it’s the lack of a bevel box that makes the difference. My R32 is a transverse and that’s Haldex (gen4)
Doubtless I’ll be proved wrong.

 

[pjm-84]

FWD the front tyres wear quicker than the rear as they do the steering and drive.
On my 4Motion over 140 000 miles tyre wear was equal front to rear.

Good point. Tyre wear was very even on the Volvo, probably more wear at the rear if be told (probably due to the trailing arm bushes early on during the tyre's life). That said you know when it works and when it doesn't, the difference in grip is off the scale in slippery conditions. But you may not appreciate it working in dry conditions.....hmmmm.

 

[Up10]

Over 16,000 miles, our front tyres (Branderup 18") have worn a bit quicker than the rear. We have rotated them now to glean a few more miles on the set before changing all to cross climates or similar.
We wondered if that was purely due to the steering function but maybe it is more to do with the way the 4wd works as described above.
T6.1 204 4 motion 2024.

 

[sidepod]

Over 16,000 miles, our front tyres (Branderup 18") have worn a bit quicker than the rear. We have rotated them now to glean a few more miles on the set before changing all to cross climates or similar.
We wondered if that was purely due to the steering function but maybe it is more to do with the way the 4wd works as described above.
T6.1 204 4 motion 2024.

Purely useage profile. Lots of town driving and you’ll wear out the front more as it handles most of the braking and the steering. Long stints on the motorway and they’ll wear evenly.

 

[Chriskend]

A simple thread asking for advice and it’s kept me entertained for a week now.

 

[Californication69]

A simple thread asking for advice and it’s kept me entertained for a week now.

Something something 4 motion ?
Poor Bear, they won’t want to ask anything else

@Bear it’s not normally like this.