T7 Hybrid 4Motion Road trip - van vs Porsche

[Peter Chequers]

Yesterday was day one of road trip to Devon and Cornwall

Group size 12 cars including two 911s, a Cayman, fast Audis, Golf R and an Alpine

To the amusement of the group I decided at the last minute to bring the T7 as it's first proper trip having only done a few local trips from new

Very impressed with its driving dynamics, comfort, noise levels and the VW travel assist ACC

The main take away from the day was managing the high voltage battery so the vehicle has its full power (245hp) available for the roads where the faster cars are "pressing on"

Without some proactive management the hybrid system will "waste" the precious EV power on the roads where the 1.5 petrol engine would be adequate

Obviously this trip was not the scenario that the vehicle was designed for!

Leg 1 was High Wycombe to Haynes Motor Musuem and I let the car do its own thing ...which meant well before the destination the EV battery was close to zero %

Two hours plugged in to the charger at the museum and with about 66% charge in the EV battery I decided to try something different for leg 2 to Barnstaple via Cheddar Gorge

I found that by manually overriding the hybrid system to keep the current charge when I set off it was possible to retain battery power for the roads where more acceleration was desirable ... However this requires going into the mode menu and turning off the manual setting in the hybrid system and then selecting sport on the gear position switch.

The downside of this is the impact on fuel economy when just using the 1.5 petrol engine

The software seems to be clever enough to work out when the regeneration has put a bit more charge in above the minimum level that has been manually specified that it can use the EV power in certain circumstances. But it can only do this if you have going downhill or braking a lot.

It got me thinking about what you would need to do on a skiing trip so that the precious EV battery was available to provide power the the rear wheels when arriving at the snow line in the climb up to a ski resort.

Day 2 is Lands End in the rain ... Just going to plug into a 150 kWh fast charger while having breakfast so I have a full EV battery to use today.

 

[SanderR72]

Nice experiment. I would not know what you would exactly have to do in case of the ski trip, but I’m pretty sure that you would be the only one actually arriving compared to the other cars

Ps. I drive a T5 Cali FWD and a Porsche 718 Cayman

 

[Kernowboy]

Excellent, a bunch of yuppies ragging it round the country lanes. And a 3 tonne van saving electric so they can get all that power down to keep up when ‘pressing on’. At least you’ll be able to see the horse riders over the Cornish hedges, I’m sure you’ll be very welcome.

 

[WelshGas]

Yesterday was day one of road trip to Devon and Cornwall

Group size 12 cars including two 911s, a Cayman, fast Audis, Golf R and an Alpine

To the amusement of the group I decided at the last minute to bring the T7 as it's first proper trip having only done a few local trips from new

Very impressed with its driving dynamics, comfort, noise levels and the VW travel assist ACC

The main take away from the day was managing the high voltage battery so the vehicle has its full power (245hp) available for the roads where the faster cars are "pressing on"

Without some proactive management the hybrid system will "waste" the precious EV power on the roads where the 1.5 petrol engine would be adequate

Obviously this trip was not the scenario that the vehicle was designed for!

Leg 1 was High Wycombe to Haynes Motor Musuem and I let the car do its own thing ...which meant well before the destination the EV battery was close to zero %

Two hours plugged in to the charger at the museum and with about 66% charge in the EV battery I decided to try something different for leg 2 to Barnstaple via Cheddar Gorge

I found that by manually overriding the hybrid system to keep the current charge when I set off it was possible to retain battery power for the roads where more acceleration was desirable ... However this requires going into the mode menu and turning off the manual setting in the hybrid system and then selecting sport on the gear position switch.

The downside of this is the impact on fuel economy when just using the 1.5 petrol engine

The software seems to be clever enough to work out when the regeneration has put a bit more charge in above the minimum level that has been manually specified that it can use the EV power in certain circumstances. But it can only do this if you have going downhill or braking a lot.

It got me thinking about what you would need to do on a skiing trip so that the precious EV battery was available to provide power the the rear wheels when arriving at the snow line in the climb up to a ski resort.

Day 2 is Lands End in the rain ... Just going to plug into a 150 kWh fast charger while having breakfast so I have a full EV battery to use today.


View attachment 140720

I would suggest a little reading regarding how the 4 Motion system is used and controlled on the eHybrid vehicle.
You will not be without 4 wheel drive when it is required.


The VW Multivan eHybrid 4MOTION is a
plug-in hybrid all-wheel-drive system featuring a 1.5-litre TSI petrol engine combined with an 85kW front electric motor and a 100kW rear electric motor. The system offers purely electric driving up to 95km, enhanced by the electric rear motor for traction in various conditions, with automatic power distribution for maximum efficiency and control in the van and camper van segment.
Key Components & Operation

• Three Drive Worlds: The system combines electric driving, long-distance hybrid suitability, and maximum traction.
• Electric Motors: An 85kW electric motor is integrated into the front axle's 6-speed dual-clutch gearbox, and a 100kW electric motor is positioned on the rear axle.
• Engine & Transmission: A 1.5-litre turbocharged TSI petrol engine works with these motors.
• Battery: A 19.7 kWh battery is used for the electric range, supporting 11kW AC and 50kW DC charging.
• All-Wheel Drive: The system places one electric motor on each axle, providing all-wheel-drive capability.
• Dynamic Control: Power distribution between the axles is managed electronically, allowing up to 100% of the drive force to be sent to either axle as needed.
• Disengagement Clutch: A decoupling unit can automatically disconnect the rear electric motor to conserve energy under normal traction conditions.

Features & Benefits

• Electric Range: The plug-in hybrid system provides a zero-emission range of up to 95 kilometers.
• Hybrid Power: It enables long journeys and covers short trips purely on electric power.
• All-Weather Traction: The system provides enhanced traction and control in various conditions.
• Electric Stationary Climate Control: Standard equipment includes electric stationary heating, cooling, and ventilation, even when the vehicle is stationary or charging.
• Energy Management: The front motor can act as a generator, powered by the TSI engine, to charge the battery and supply the rear axle motor even when the main battery is depleted.

 

[SanderR72]

Excellent, a bunch of yuppies ragging it round the country lanes. And a 3 tonne van saving electric so they can get all that power down to keep up when ‘pressing on’. At least you’ll be able to see the horse riders over the Cornish hedges, I’m sure you’ll be very welcome.

So if you worked your arse off to be able to drive a fast car like a Porsche you are a yuppie? Well I guess that’s one way to look at it.

If the van is actually able to keep up when the others are “pressing on”, it means they are not pressing on, trust me…

 

[burton61]

I would suggest a little reading regarding how the 4 Motion system is used and controlled on the eHybrid vehicle.
You will not be without 4 wheel drive when it is required.


The VW Multivan eHybrid 4MOTION is a
plug-in hybrid all-wheel-drive system featuring a 1.5-litre TSI petrol engine combined with an 85kW front electric motor and a 100kW rear electric motor. The system offers purely electric driving up to 95km, enhanced by the electric rear motor for traction in various conditions, with automatic power distribution for maximum efficiency and control in the van and camper van segment.
Key Components & Operation

• Three Drive Worlds: The system combines electric driving, long-distance hybrid suitability, and maximum traction.
• Electric Motors: An 85kW electric motor is integrated into the front axle's 6-speed dual-clutch gearbox, and a 100kW electric motor is positioned on the rear axle.
• Engine & Transmission: A 1.5-litre turbocharged TSI petrol engine works with these motors.
• Battery: A 19.7 kWh battery is used for the electric range, supporting 11kW AC and 50kW DC charging.
• All-Wheel Drive: The system places one electric motor on each axle, providing all-wheel-drive capability.
• Dynamic Control: Power distribution between the axles is managed electronically, allowing up to 100% of the drive force to be sent to either axle as needed.
• Disengagement Clutch: A decoupling unit can automatically disconnect the rear electric motor to conserve energy under normal traction conditions.

Features & Benefits

• Electric Range: The plug-in hybrid system provides a zero-emission range of up to 95 kilometers.
• Hybrid Power: It enables long journeys and covers short trips purely on electric power.
• All-Weather Traction: The system provides enhanced traction and control in various conditions.
• Electric Stationary Climate Control: Standard equipment includes electric stationary heating, cooling, and ventilation, even when the vehicle is stationary or charging.
• Energy Management: The front motor can act as a generator, powered by the TSI engine, to charge the battery and supply the rear axle motor even when the main battery is depleted.

View attachment 140722

View attachment 140723

View attachment 140724

Yup, 4 motion always available regardless of high voltage battery range i.e. even if it says zero.
Same for moving off in 1st gear as that's electric also.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

Yup, 4 motion always available regardless of high voltage battery range i.e. even if it says zero.
Same for moving off in 1st gear as that's electric also.

There is a reserve always kept available in the hybrid battery, despite the displayed %

 

[burton61]

There is a reserve always kept available in the hybrid battery, despite the displayed %

4 motion always powered by engine generating

 

[burton61]

https://www.vwpress.co.uk/releases/5316

4 Motion
"The electric rear-wheel drive is also available when the battery is empty: the power required for the electric drive motor on the rear axle is then automatically generated by the TSI engine and the front electric motor, which in this case acts as a generator."

that's from the press release link. So that's 4 motion on tap whenever it is required regardless of high voltage battery range.

I had read something similar for moving off in 1st gear but its not in that article and a brief search didn't locate it so far. Not so critical anyway I guess compared to confirmation about the 4 motion with zero EV range.

 

[burton61]

sorry first reply above was posted by accident and hence incomplete, post above clarifies this with official link to press release

 

[Jerrywho]

Yesterday was day one of road trip to Devon and Cornwall

Group size 12 cars including two 911s, a Cayman, fast Audis, Golf R and an Alpine

To the amusement of the group I decided at the last minute to bring the T7 as it's first proper trip having only done a few local trips from new

Very impressed with its driving dynamics, comfort, noise levels and the VW travel assist ACC

The main take away from the day was managing the high voltage battery so the vehicle has its full power (245hp) available for the roads where the faster cars are "pressing on"

Without some proactive management the hybrid system will "waste" the precious EV power on the roads where the 1.5 petrol engine would be adequate

Obviously this trip was not the scenario that the vehicle was designed for!

Leg 1 was High Wycombe to Haynes Motor Musuem and I let the car do its own thing ...which meant well before the destination the EV battery was close to zero %

Two hours plugged in to the charger at the museum and with about 66% charge in the EV battery I decided to try something different for leg 2 to Barnstaple via Cheddar Gorge

I found that by manually overriding the hybrid system to keep the current charge when I set off it was possible to retain battery power for the roads where more acceleration was desirable ... However this requires going into the mode menu and turning off the manual setting in the hybrid system and then selecting sport on the gear position switch.

The downside of this is the impact on fuel economy when just using the 1.5 petrol engine

The software seems to be clever enough to work out when the regeneration has put a bit more charge in above the minimum level that has been manually specified that it can use the EV power in certain circumstances. But it can only do this if you have going downhill or braking a lot.

It got me thinking about what you would need to do on a skiing trip so that the precious EV battery was available to provide power the the rear wheels when arriving at the snow line in the climb up to a ski resort.

Day 2 is Lands End in the rain ... Just going to plug into a 150 kWh fast charger while having breakfast so I have a full EV battery to use today.


View attachment 140720

So please....anyone could say which mode is best to drive in hard conditions? (ice, light snow, hard rain?) ; and what about driving slowly on some cm of snow to avoid slip of tyres?

 

[WelshGas]

https://www.vwpress.co.uk/releases/5316

4 Motion
"The electric rear-wheel drive is also available when the battery is empty: the power required for the electric drive motor on the rear axle is then automatically generated by the TSI engine and the front electric motor, which in this case acts as a generator."

that's from the press release link. So that's 4 motion on tap whenever it is required regardless of high voltage battery range.

I had read something similar for moving off in 1st gear but its not in that article and a brief search didn't locate it so far. Not so critical anyway I guess compared to confirmation about the 4 motion with zero EV range.

On the Multivan Hybrid EV drive is always used for low speed ( 1st and Reverse ) manoeuvring. Probably explains why the Hybrid has a 6 speed DSG rather than 7 speed on the IC vehicles.

 

[Keitheeweithee]

Yesterday was day one of road trip to Devon and Cornwall

Group size 12 cars including two 911s, a Cayman, fast Audis, Golf R and an Alpine

To the amusement of the group I decided at the last minute to bring the T7 as it's first proper trip having only done a few local trips from new

Very impressed with its driving dynamics, comfort, noise levels and the VW travel assist ACC

The main take away from the day was managing the high voltage battery so the vehicle has its full power (245hp) available for the roads where the faster cars are "pressing on"

Without some proactive management the hybrid system will "waste" the precious EV power on the roads where the 1.5 petrol engine would be adequate

Obviously this trip was not the scenario that the vehicle was designed for!

Leg 1 was High Wycombe to Haynes Motor Musuem and I let the car do its own thing ...which meant well before the destination the EV battery was close to zero %

Two hours plugged in to the charger at the museum and with about 66% charge in the EV battery I decided to try something different for leg 2 to Barnstaple via Cheddar Gorge

I found that by manually overriding the hybrid system to keep the current charge when I set off it was possible to retain battery power for the roads where more acceleration was desirable ... However this requires going into the mode menu and turning off the manual setting in the hybrid system and then selecting sport on the gear position switch.

The downside of this is the impact on fuel economy when just using the 1.5 petrol engine

The software seems to be clever enough to work out when the regeneration has put a bit more charge in above the minimum level that has been manually specified that it can use the EV power in certain circumstances. But it can only do this if you have going downhill or braking a lot.

It got me thinking about what you would need to do on a skiing trip so that the precious EV battery was available to provide power the the rear wheels when arriving at the snow line in the climb up to a ski resort.

Day 2 is Lands End in the rain ... Just going to plug into a 150 kWh fast charger while having breakfast so I have a full EV battery to use today.


View attachment 140720

Peter could you update us on how rest of trip went? And any other PHEV owners on long trips like this?

The explanation of the 4 motion system by others - and the detailed press release - is very interesting, in theory it seems you always have 4wd capability e.g. when arriving in a ski station in the Alps after a long drive down? Which is what we do currently in our T6.1 4M.

What I would like to know is how such a long journey would work in practice in the T7 PHEV. So say a more or less continuous 700 mile drive down via the tunnel with a short overnight stop at a Novotel, let's assume no charger available. What would happen if the van was left to its own devices, or would you need to change some settings? Wouldn't be bothered about having electric only power on such a long cross country journey. Priority would be a steady comfortable 70mph+ on the autoroutes up and down the long hills on ACC, then on normal roads for the c.50 mile uphill section into the mountains, then needing serious 4wd on the last 10 snowy hairpins up to and within the ski station. Charging then available in the station. How would all that work? Thanks!

 

[WelshGas]

Peter could you update us on how rest of trip went? And any other PHEV owners on long trips like this?

The explanation of the 4 motion system by others - and the detailed press release - is very interesting, in theory it seems you always have 4wd capability e.g. when arriving in a ski station in the Alps after a long drive down? Which is what we do currently in our T6.1 4M.

What I would like to know is how such a long journey would work in practice in the T7 PHEV. So say a more or less continuous 700 mile drive down via the tunnel with a short overnight stop at a Novotel, let's assume no charger available. What would happen if the van was left to its own devices, or would you need to change some settings? Wouldn't be bothered about having electric only power on such a long cross country journey. Priority would be a steady comfortable 70mph+ on the autoroutes up and down the long hills on ACC, then on normal roads for the c.50 mile uphill section into the mountains, then needing serious 4wd on the last 10 snowy hairpins up to and within the ski station. Charging then available in the station. How would all that work? Thanks!

I have the Hybrid Multivan which has a similar system to the California. You can select Hybrid drive on Start and select how much battery capacity to use and how much to keep in reserve and on Ignition Off the battery reserve will be intact.
I recently completed a 1000 mile journey from S Wales to the tip of Jutland in Denmark. I selected 50% battery capacity as reserve, which you have to do each Ignition On, and arrived with 50% battery capacity intact. On downhill stretches the battery was charged via regenerative braking and also when cruising at 70 on the flat, and pure EV at low speed on the flat.
It is a clever system.

 

[Peter Chequers]

Peter could you update us on how rest of trip went? And any other PHEV owners on long trips like this?

The explanation of the 4 motion system by others - and the detailed press release - is very interesting, in theory it seems you always have 4wd capability e.g. when arriving in a ski station in the Alps after a long drive down? Which is what we do currently in our T6.1 4M.

What I would like to know is how such a long journey would work in practice in the T7 PHEV. So say a more or less continuous 700 mile drive down via the tunnel with a short overnight stop at a Novotel, let's assume no charger available. What would happen if the van was left to its own devices, or would you need to change some settings? Wouldn't be bothered about having electric only power on such a long cross country journey. Priority would be a steady comfortable 70mph+ on the autoroutes up and down the long hills on ACC, then on normal roads for the c.50 mile uphill section into the mountains, then needing serious 4wd on the last 10 snowy hairpins up to and within the ski station. Charging then available in the station. How would all that work? Thanks!

According to the others on here and the press release referenced the 1.5 petrol engine can act as a generator to provide power for the rear axle electric motor even if the EV battery is empty… I would like to test this before heading to the alps on a ski trip !!

My experience on the way home from Cornwall was that for first 200 miles I managed (saved) the EV battery so I was only using hybrid mode occasionally when I wanted more acceleration. This required two different setting changes (turning off the save battery setting and then engaging sport mode)

For the last approximately 100 miles I let the car do its own thing in hybrid mode … firstly on the A303, then to avoid major traffic around Stonehenge cross country to Marlborough then M4

I think the EV battery started that leg around 35% and went to zero after about 70 miles

So the last 30 miles was petrol only using ACC on the M4

I saw no evidence that it was significantly recharging the EV battery while driving at 70 using ACC on the level as it firmly stayed at Zero although just occasionally when going uphill a tiny bit of EV power would appear on the display

Not a problem for cruising on a flat motorway but you do notice you have a slightly under powered not very aero dynamic three ton vehicle

 

[burton61]

I am pretty sure the Phev only shows EV miles that can be used after it has been plugged in for charge.

So when it shows zero EV miles and is running off the petrol engine the vehicle is constantly charging the EV (high voltage) battery when it can through regenerative braking etc. but immediately uses that EV energy as soon as its needed. So it is sort of charging and discharging continuously with zero EV miles left.

I don't own yet, but have had a lengthy test drive in the Phev and that's what I was told and witnessed. A bit odd as I expected the EV miles available to rise by driving but it doesn't. If you put the display into 'energy flow' mode you can see what is happening in terms of input and output energy at all wheels, engine and High Voltage battery etc.. Having deliberately run the vehicle in different states of EV charge I can confirm that I could see the rear wheels driving/ outputting energy. I didn't do that in sports mode but just played with it at corners and roundabouts etc. and 4WD kicked in with EV miles and with zero EV miles. I would hope that was what was happening at the actual wheel and not just on the display (haha!) but cant prove that.

 

[WelshGas]

I am pretty sure the Phev only shows EV miles that can be used after it has been plugged in for charge.

So when it shows zero EV miles and is running off the petrol engine the vehicle is constantly charging the EV (high voltage) battery when it can through regenerative braking etc. but immediately uses that EV energy as soon as its needed. So it is sort of charging and discharging continuously with zero EV miles left.

I don't own yet, but have had a lengthy test drive in the Phev and that's what I was told and witnessed. A bit odd as I expected the EV miles available to rise by driving but it doesn't. If you put the display into 'energy flow' mode you can see what is happening in terms of input and output energy at all wheels, engine and High Voltage battery etc.. Having deliberately run the vehicle in different states of EV charge I can confirm that I could see the rear wheels driving/ outputting energy. I didn't do that in sports mode but just played with it at corners and roundabouts etc. and 4WD kicked in with EV miles and with zero EV miles. I would hope that was what was happening at the actual wheel and not just on the display (haha!) but cant prove that.

On a recent holiday in France, driving in Hybrid mode we started with EV range of 0km and following a 150km section of motorway covered at 100-110 kph on ACC the EV battery was showing 27km range.

 

[burton61]

Ah! interesting. Not what the dealer said and my drive appeared to confirm that but I didn't cover the kind of mileage you did above with zero EV miles. Thanks

 

[burton61]

So just thinking that over compared to my test driving....that's 18% EV charge vs mileage driven (terrain and type of driving dependant of course).

I did the best part of 25-30 miles mostly economical driving, flattish terrain out in free flowing roads/ traffic) with zero EV miles at the start and had zero EV miles at the end. mmmm!!

Maybe your 150km was all downhill with brakes on regen.

Anyway, good to know and just not something I witnessed so believed what the dealer had explained.

 

[Jerrywho]

I did not experienced that neither; you can see EV charging at display when regenerative braking (ex. downhill) ACC driving may activate EV charging but to a minor extent in flat terrain. To me 27km (% ? depending on EV capacity) is too much; I wish I could see that in my T7 PHEV

 

[burton61]

Yes, hence my 'tongue in cheek' comment about the 150km being downhill.

Minor correction, my comment above should have been 18% EV miles of charge vs total mileage driven 27km/ 150km per original post). Makes no difference to the general concept of what's been witnessed on the Multivan or my observation so far on T7 California Phev though.

 

[sticky1]

Yesterday was day one of road trip to Devon and Cornwall

Group size 12 cars including two 911s, a Cayman, fast Audis, Golf R and an Alpine

To the amusement of the group I decided at the last minute to bring the T7 as it's first proper trip having only done a few local trips from new

Very impressed with its driving dynamics, comfort, noise levels and the VW travel assist ACC

The main take away from the day was managing the high voltage battery so the vehicle has its full power (245hp) available for the roads where the faster cars are "pressing on"

Without some proactive management the hybrid system will "waste" the precious EV power on the roads where the 1.5 petrol engine would be adequate

Obviously this trip was not the scenario that the vehicle was designed for!

Leg 1 was High Wycombe to Haynes Motor Musuem and I let the car do its own thing ...which meant well before the destination the EV battery was close to zero %

Two hours plugged in to the charger at the museum and with about 66% charge in the EV battery I decided to try something different for leg 2 to Barnstaple via Cheddar Gorge

I found that by manually overriding the hybrid system to keep the current charge when I set off it was possible to retain battery power for the roads where more acceleration was desirable ... However this requires going into the mode menu and turning off the manual setting in the hybrid system and then selecting sport on the gear position switch.

The downside of this is the impact on fuel economy when just using the 1.5 petrol engine

The software seems to be clever enough to work out when the regeneration has put a bit more charge in above the minimum level that has been manually specified that it can use the EV power in certain circumstances. But it can only do this if you have going downhill or braking a lot.

It got me thinking about what you would need to do on a skiing trip so that the precious EV battery was available to provide power the the rear wheels when arriving at the snow line in the climb up to a ski resort.

Day 2 is Lands End in the rain ... Just going to plug into a 150 kWh fast charger while having breakfast so I have a full EV battery to use today.


View attachment 140720

Really interesting to hear your observations. I purchased a TSI as I wasn’t sure about a 1.5 petrol handling a 3 ton vehicle but it sounds like it’s pretty sorted.

 

[Peter Chequers]

Ah! interesting. Not what the dealer said and my drive appeared to confirm that but I didn't cover the kind of mileage you did above with zero EV miles. Thank

I am pretty sure the Phev only shows EV miles that can be used after it has been plugged in for charge.

So when it shows zero EV miles and is running off the petrol engine the vehicle is constantly charging the EV (high voltage) battery when it can through regenerative braking etc. but immediately uses that EV energy as soon as its needed. So it is sort of charging and discharging continuously with zero EV miles left.

I don't own yet, but have had a lengthy test drive in the Phev and that's what I was told and witnessed. A bit odd as I expected the EV miles available to rise by driving but it doesn't. If you put the display into 'energy flow' mode you can see what is happening in terms of input and output energy at all wheels, engine and High Voltage battery etc.. Having deliberately run the vehicle in different states of EV charge I can confirm that I could see the rear wheels driving/ outputting energy. I didn't do that in sports mode but just played with it at corners and roundabouts etc. and 4WD kicked in with EV miles and with zero EV miles. I would hope that was what was happening at the actual wheel and not just on the display (haha!) but cant prove that.

That certainly ties in with what I was seeing
Once the available EV Miles reached zero they stayed at zero
Any Juice going back into the batteries from regeneration seems to get used almost straight away ie going uphill or accelerating back into lane three to pass a slower vehicle
I did try looking at the flow diagram but decided it was too difficult to focus on that with all the constantly changing flow directions while in busy traffic conditions