Motor home purchase for £30k - Merc616 Chassis.

[Californication69]

Reading up on the Mercedes 616 chassis.
I’m 54 so can drive with C1 licence.

Thinking about the future and what I’m after.
Really balk at the idea of spending £135k of retirement money on something we might only use 4 times a year.
I’m leaning towards finding a decent MH for around £30k then doing any work myself on the lesuire side: fridge/heating/ solar/ batteries/wiring/etc.

Apparently the Merc 616 chassis is the one to have.
2004 to 2006 model.
Hymer
Concorde
Niesmann & Bischoff -Arto & flair

Has any one else gone down this rabbit hole of research and what extra information have you found?

I’m West Midlands so have plenty of large garages to help with the chassis, engine, gearbox side of the MH.
Also trying to find a good guide to layouts.
Member of the FaceAche Classic hymers.
Read all of Ron’s information.
Ron Burgandy stay classy.

 

[sticky1]

My experience with any of the commercially built motor homes is that technology and materials have moved on massively since the pandemic.
Almost all vehicles with holes (windows, skylights wiring) in panels will leak eventually, particularly as they age. You just need to look at the yachting industry to see how they consider windows a maintainable item, unlike motorhome manufacturers.
I’d want to rip out pretty much all the electronics from a vehicle that age.
So if you really want that base vehicle you maybe best sourcing a flatbed and building a box on it.
However once you make that leap there are lots of other vehicles that come into scope.
I have a six wheel drive Bucher Duro Mowag with Cummins diesel engine and the Allison “million mile” gearbox, all easy maintenance without any of the crazy Unimog parts pricing scam.
There are loads of base vehicles and more and more options to build a habitation unit on the back.

 

[secret lemonade drinker]

I di all this research and bought a brand new hymer derivative A Class for £88K, 3650Kg so C1 Licence. It will paid off before retirement and only 6 years old and I will know it's history.
The best machine is still crap if the last owner did not maintain it!

 

[SpuffingtonMe]

I ran a 616CDI for 4yrs back in 2017 through to 2021. I bought it initially to full time in, which I did very comfortably for 2yrs whilst I was getting divorced and then myself and my (now) Wife toured around Europe in it before bringing it back to the UK in 2020. Honestly, it was fab but getting on a bit now. There are times in the last 6months, however, where I wished I'd kept it and upgraded it to Euro4.

The problem you'll find is they're a bit long in the tooth now. Unless you buy one from a fastidious owner, and even then, you'll spend a fair bit of time and money fixing them. In no particular order, the issues you can have:

- autobox will need servicing;
- ABS control unit can go at this age and is ££££ (ask me how I know!);
- leaf springs fail (I had both sides go on mine);
- turbo "tranducer" or something similar - basically I think a little bellows or something which controls boost pressure can fail. Relatively inexpensive part but a pain in the backside;
- wiring is brittle at this age and can cause all kinds of limp mode issues and diagnostics are vintage so you need a "Star Machine" to read codes which often don't show on the list;
- seized brake calipers need stripping, new sliding pins and often new discs & pads where they've warped because the maintenance hasn't been done;
- coolant change required & radiators can degrade;
- corroded brake lines;
- indicator stalks / wiper stalks can fail which requires steering wheel removal and new part;
- twin rear wheels are a pain for replacing brakes. Six tyres also when they need replacing (>5-7years).

The other things are that they're heavy & long so you're limited to commercial vehicle yards which are a completely different world from what most of us are used to. You find yourself "negotiating" with guys who are running greasy pits, servicing old lorries as the main dealer rates are exorbitant. Finding someone with a lift or a pit big enough to take a 6t, 3.3m high, 9m long motorhome can be challenging.

15-18mpg is realistic.

I reckon I spent £5k per annum on servicing and maintenance, some proactive, some reactive. Mine had sat around a bit and I think that was partly the problem. They like to be driven. The more it was driven, the less issues I had.

All that aside, the converters who used them - Frankia, Concorde etc. made superb quality habitation units and although you'll likely have to spend a good bit replacing parts inside, I always found that my Concorde came apart easily and was easily put back together too. Parts Concorde used at the time were often off of Volvo, Audi, VW or off the shelf relays so if you shopped around, you could repair things yourself pretty easily. I'm handy but not a natural mechanic or engineer, but I managed to fix most non-specialist bits I came across.

In the end, I sold mine because it was taking more time to fix and prepare for the road than it was being used. And with a 8yr old and young baby at the time, I simply didn't have the time to fix it. I don't now with a 13yr old, 5yr old and 1.5yr old. But there are times I wished I'd kept it, continued to keep on top of maintenance and put an additional Aguti seatbelted seat in there for the 3kids. But heyho.

Feel free to ask anything you think I've missed. I loved mine and it was quite the power-house for what it was. It did skiing in the Alps, the NC500 twice (yes, 9m vans are possible!) and all over France & Germany.

 

[pjm-84]

Following..... retiring next year, maybe early 2027 at 59....... heading up to the show with gusto this October and maybe a wad of cash!

 

[SpuffingtonMe]

Again - any help I can provide, more than happy to do so.

Whatever you do, don't buy a Fiat. I know there are many people who say they're great but I only bought my current one due to a 2021 Burstner on a Fiat I was going to buy having an AdBlue issue which seemed to have been unsolveable from new. It seems if it's not one thing, it's another.

The 9spd autobox problems seem more prevalent on the 160 & 180bhp models but it's not unknown for the 140s to eat themselves either. Not enough of the 8spd Aisin's out there to determine if they're much better but there are already reports of failures. It could be that folks have got mixed up (Fiat didn't change the gearknobs on some of the early ones so they read 9spd instead of 8spd), or there are genuinely issues.

On top of all of that, Stellantis approach seems to be to ignore the symptoms and only check diagnostics. If diagnostics are clear, everything must be fine. Even when it's quite obviously not.

I've much more faith in German brands.

 

[pjm-84]

That's the issue. After reading your woes, I spent a few hours looking for non Fiat options.....but with two lounges. Very limited options out there.

 

[Californication69]

Following..... retiring next year, maybe early 2027 at 59....... heading up to the show with gusto this October and maybe a wad of cash!

You there Friday ?
I’ll be there Friday.

 

[Californication69]

Again - any help I can provide, more than happy to do so.

Whatever you do, don't buy a Fiat. I know there are many people who say they're great but I only bought my current one due to a 2021 Burstner on a Fiat I was going to buy having an AdBlue issue which seemed to have been unsolveable from new. It seems if it's not one thing, it's another.

The 9spd autobox problems seem more prevalent on the 160 & 180bhp models but it's not unknown for the 140s to eat themselves either. Not enough of the 8spd Aisin's out there to determine if they're much better but there are already reports of failures. It could be that folks have got mixed up (Fiat didn't change the gearknobs on some of the early ones so they read 9spd instead of 8spd), or there are genuinely issues.

On top of all of that, Stellantis approach seems to be to ignore the symptoms and only check diagnostics. If diagnostics are clear, everything must be fine. Even when it's quite obviously not.

I've much more faith in German brands.

Thank you for your awesome write up.
The old MoHo do look very good and if you can find one that’s had the maintenance kept up to date and things fixed, then they are a great buy.
Hard to find though. And to trust what sellers say.
Sometimes best to buy new and take the hit if you can afford it.

 

[pjm-84]

You there Friday ?
I’ll be there Friday.

I will be there on Friday.....cant miss me at 6ft 5in with limited hair and a military don't mess with me look

 

[Californication69]

I will be there on Friday.....cant miss me at 6ft 5in with limited hair and a military don't mess with me look

If you hear a Black Country lad with both arms covered in very well designed Japanese tattoos shouting PJM PJM, that’ll be me

 

[pjm-84]

Good enough description. I will spot you.

 

[pjm-84]

Some new Hymers coming and I like the Eura Mobil version of the Hymer, but reviews are shocking for Eura Mobil on Google. Unless I go top end, I cant find a twin lounge setup on a Mercedes platform.

 

[secret lemonade drinker]

Aisin gearboxes usually dont have sticks, they have a rotary or sliding knob, something to do with copyright, Ford duratorque/Peugeot have had Aisin EAT8 for a few years, but its the cam chains that die on those engines, or wet cam belts on smaller Ford/peugeot units.

 

[pjm-84]

Followed the expensive Hymer Venture from Landovery on the A40 up to Halfway at the weekend. Impressed on how that thing cornered for something that was on stilts compared to my lowered T5