How to fill hydraulic reservoir for roof pump?

[seagullslikepies]

Hello all, hoping someone has an idea, followed instructions above to get to the pump and the fluid level was low, bought new fluid (yikes) and filled up the reservoir as high as possible, though not yet up to min level. Tried raising the roof to get fluid into the system but none of the fluid seems to be getting sucked up from the reservoir.
Pump sounds like it is running normally.

Can it be air in the system?
have tried running it with the filler cap on and off,
have tried loosening the emergency release screw.

Is there any way of raising the roof manually without the pump to get it started?
or to allow me to "close" the roof and run the pump backwards?

 

[Emil Silenhag]

To raise manually, just loosen emergency release screw and from the inside push/raise the roof. Support it with a wooden pole or two…

 

[TripleBee]

To raise manually, just loosen emergency release screw and from the inside push/raise the roof. Support it with a wooden pole or two…

This won't work because the rams first push the front scissors forward to release them from the hook in the roof. That is why you need to secure the roof with straps when the hydraulics stop working and you lower the roof through the emergency release screw. The roof lowers, but doesn't lock into place.

 

[Emil Silenhag]

This won't work because the rams first push the front scissors forward to release them from the hook in the roof. That is why you need to secure the roof with straps when the hydraulics stop working and you lower the roof through the emergency release screw. The roof lowers, but doesn't lock into place.

Good point, sounds logical. I’ve done it a couple of times, but can’t remember details. I guess that those I helped first lowered the roof with emergency screw, and then came to me..

 

[Kjetil]

Good point, sounds logical. I’ve done it a couple of times, but can’t remember details. I guess that those I helped first lowered the roof with emergency screw, and then came to me..

Maybe we’ll meet Emil, but I will give it a try first by my own and top off the oil reservoir. Then I might have to replace the hydraulic cylinders on each side but that will a totally different story.
Regards
Kjetil

 

[Frans_T5]

BTW the expensive hydraulic fluid feels and smells like the hydraulic fluid "my job" uses on planes....But im not sure.....i used the VW stuff

Just reading the post about the popup roof cylinders, I have run in to the same problem, one of my cylinders had a bust endcap, lost all my oil.
I'm in the process of repairing the cylinder and not replacing it.
I'll glue the end cap back using Loctite 648 and secure the cap by drilling 4 or 5 little hole's and tapping M3. This should hold the end cap. (Pressures could go as high as 180 Bar exposed in the direct sun)
Actually the whole system has one big design flaw, it should had a pressure relieve valve set to 160 Bar so avoiding the extreme high pressure in the hydraulic system. The pump has a pressure relieve valve but is is situated before the operating solenoids!
An other lesson, in extreme hot conditions I'll popup the roof for 98% so the oil has room to expand and keep the pressure of the end caps.
The oil I will use is not the golden fluid by VW G 060 146 A2 but this one, almost the same and was used in the early systems 2006, VW power steering oil green, VW TL 521.46. It has almost the same composition, and cost a fraction.

 

[sidepod]

Just reading the post about the popup roof cylinders, I have run in to the same problem, one of my cylinders had a bust endcap, lost all my oil.
I'm in the process of repairing the cylinder and not replacing it.
I'll glue the end cap back using Loctite 648 and secure the cap by drilling 4 or 5 little hole's and tapping M3. This should hold the end cap. (Pressures could go as high as 180 Bar exposed in the direct sun)
Actually the whole system has one big design flaw, it should had a pressure relieve valve set to 160 Bar so avoiding the extreme high pressure in the hydraulic system. The pump has a pressure relieve valve but is is situated before the operating solenoids!
An other lesson, in extreme hot conditions I'll popup the roof for 98% so the oil has room to expand and keep the pressure of the end caps.
The oil I will use is not the golden fluid by VW G 060 146 A2 but this one, almost the same and was used in the early systems 2006, VW power steering oil green, VW TL 521.46. It has almost the same composition, and cost a fraction.

Always nice when someone knows what they’re talking about

 

[Frans_T5]

Always nice when someone knows what they’re talking about

It is advised to drain all the old oil before filling the system with the new oil!
I have just drilled and tapping threads, I have to wait for the LOCTITE 648 to arrive.
If you are not sure about the hydraulic oil and more comfortable using the golden VW oil do it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For who it may concern, after repeatedly asking AI,
Yes, you can replace the fluid with VW TL 521.46 green hydraulic oil. This specific hydraulic fluid (also known as G 002 000 or the newer G 004 000 M2 / CHF 11S) is exactly the correct specification prescribed by Volkswagen for hydraulic systems like power steering and electro-hydraulic roof systems.
Since some old oil might still be left in the lines after the cylinder failure and draining, it is important to fill and bleed the system carefully.

Important steps for filling and bleeding​

• Flush residual oil: Since you did not completely remove the lines, some old (and potentially contaminated) oil may remain. Fill the reservoir, carefully raise and lower the roof a small amount a few times, and check if the fluid in the reservoir stays clear green. If it turns cloudy or dark right away, pump the reservoir empty and refill it with fresh oil.
• Lower the roof completely when checking the level: Make sure the pop-up roof is fully closed when you top off the fluid. When the roof is up, a large amount of the oil is inside the cylinders. If you fill the reservoir while the roof is open, it will overflow as soon as you close the roof.
• Self-bleeding system: The hydraulic system of the T5 California is self-bleeding. Opening and closing the roof completely 3 to 5 times will automatically push any trapped air in the lines back into the reservoir.
• Monitor the fluid level: During the first few cycles, the fluid level in the reservoir will drop as air bubbles escape. Keep checking the level and top it off carefully up to the mark (usually halfway up the sight glass or between the min/max lines when the roof is fully closed).

 

[Frans_T5]

It is advised to drain all the old oil before filling the system with the new oil!
I have just drilled and tapping threads, I have to wait for the LOCTITE 648 to arrive.
If you are not sure about the hydraulic oil and more comfortable using the golden VW oil do it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For who it may concern, after repeatedly asking AI,
Yes, you can replace the fluid with VW TL 521.46 green hydraulic oil. This specific hydraulic fluid (also known as G 002 000 or the newer G 004 000 M2 / CHF 11S) is exactly the correct specification prescribed by Volkswagen for hydraulic systems like power steering and electro-hydraulic roof systems.
Since some old oil might still be left in the lines after the cylinder failure and draining, it is important to fill and bleed the system carefully.

Important steps for filling and bleeding​

• Flush residual oil: Since you did not completely remove the lines, some old (and potentially contaminated) oil may remain. Fill the reservoir, carefully raise and lower the roof a small amount a few times, and check if the fluid in the reservoir stays clear green. If it turns cloudy or dark right away, pump the reservoir empty and refill it with fresh oil.
• Lower the roof completely when checking the level: Make sure the pop-up roof is fully closed when you top off the fluid. When the roof is up, a large amount of the oil is inside the cylinders. If you fill the reservoir while the roof is open, it will overflow as soon as you close the roof.
• Self-bleeding system: The hydraulic system of the T5 California is self-bleeding. Opening and closing the roof completely 3 to 5 times will automatically push any trapped air in the lines back into the reservoir.
• Monitor the fluid level: During the first few cycles, the fluid level in the reservoir will drop as air bubbles escape. Keep checking the level and top it off carefully up to the mark (usually halfway up the sight glass or between the min/max lines when the roof is fully closed).

One thing more, I have removed both cylinders, and drained the oil form them. When I rebuild the system I will not connect the piston rod the the mechanism, both cylinders will be purged with oil on the piston rod side. IMPORTANT the cylinders will be pushed in, which is the roof down position.
Now fill the reservoir with oil, DO NOT fill over de MAX mark!!
Make sure that the piston rods can move freely over their full length.
Start the roof open cycle in short burst and gradually move to roof open, piston rods are at their end of stroke.
Now start the roof down cycle, again in short bursts until the pistons are fully down.
Check oil level, if needed add some oil, again DO NOT go over the MAX mark!
Repeat above steps several times in order to purge all air prom the system.
Last but not least, the rod need to be connected to the roof mechanism.
This can be fiddly, and it makes live easier with some extra eyes
My roof is about 40% open en supported by wooden posts, so I need to move my cylinders to the correct position, connect the joint end fasten the 3 Torx screws. The same counts for the other side.
Please make sure that you have the support posts in place, be aware of possible injury, the scissor mechanism is unforgiving!!

Yours, Frans

 

[TripleBee]

This has always wondered me a bit.
As the pistons have oil lines on both sides of the pushing rod, one would think that the oil level will keep about the same with the piston completely in or out.
It would be a different story if there should only have been 1 oil line at the back of the piston, only to push the rod. When lowering the roof, the oil pressure drops, letting the rod come down by gravity force.
In this case however, there is oil pushed on both sides of the rod, to push the roof closed completely firm.
How would there be a big difference in oil level in this case with the roof up or down?

 

[Frans_T5]

This has always wondered me a bit.
As the pistons have oil lines on both sides of the pushing rod, one would think that the oil level will keep about the same with the piston completely in or out.
It would be a different story if there should only have been 1 oil line at the back of the piston, only to push the rod. When lowering the roof, the oil pressure drops, letting the rod come down by gravity force.
In this case however, there is oil pushed on both sides of the rod, to push the roof closed completely firm.
How would there be a big difference in oil level in this case with the roof up or down?

Hi,
The point is that there is a difference in volume, bottom side and piston rod side, it is a few millilitres, But be aware always check the oil level in close position!! de bottom side of the cylinders have more oil displacement! Due to the size difference piston rod side and bottom side. The piston rod is about 8mm in diameter.
yours,

Frans

 

[Frans_T5]

UP-date on my cylinder issue.
I have repaired my broken cylinder, using loctite 648 and 4x M3 SS screws.
But while I was getting some additional information on the oil and cylinder repair I became a hint to a advertisement on a online secondhand market place here in the Netherlands.
A guy was selling two cylinders, one with the same issue as mine and a new modified one.
He had replaced both cylinders after the fail of one, so had one spare.
I bought both cylinders for €175.
It looked that this was the second time some had replaced the cylinders on his California.
Because the old model has failed and surprising he had a modified and cylinder and a old model cylinder.
So my configuration now is old model and the new modified one. I keep de repaired one as a spare cylinder.
Before installing I have flushed the system with Champion Central Hydraulic fluid pn: 8208706 specs: VW TL. 521.46 This oil can be used as replacement oil.
I primed my two cylinders on the piston rod side roof closed position.
While my pump was hanging from the roof I could fill the reservoir for 30%. I connected my cylinders but left the piston rods disconnected from the scissor linkage.
I now open de roof and kept a close eye on the fluid level, I noticed that a was short on oil, so I add some more fluid the the reservoir.
Long story short, I open and close the roof a couple of times and noticed that on cylinder was not enterally moved to the bottom position. I belief that the pressurised non return was not opening due to low back pressure.

 

[Frans_T5]

I used a tension strap to force the cylinder to the close position, by opening the emergency close roof screw.
I than connected the roof mechanism and open, close the roof several times, I had to add about 30ml more oil.
My reservoir is filled while hanging vertical for approx 75% so there is still 25% air space in my reservoir in the roof close position.
My roof is opening and closing fine now.
I'm now in the process of removing the oil stain in the tent material. Using a toothbrush and some dish wash detergent, it looks promising.
Advise if you are camping and the roof is fully exposed to direct sun heath, open the roof for 95% so the oil has some space for expansion.
Yours,

Frans.

 

[Adriano16]

Tetto sollevabile originale vw california T6 elettrico, non scende pareggiato, dal lato sinistro rimane più alto, poi alla fine si chiude giusto. Ci sarà durante la discesa circa 5 cm tra un lato e l'altro.
Cosa è successo? Posso sistemare in qlc modo?
LO dovrei utilizzare alcune volte prima di riuscire /poterlo sistemare, rischio rotture?
CCerto di un vostro gradito aiuto.

 

[Frans_T5]

Tetto sollevabile originale vw california T6 elettrico, non scende pareggiato, dal lato sinistro rimane più alto, poi alla fine si chiude giusto. Ci sarà durante la discesa circa 5 cm tra un lato e l'altro.
Cosa è successo? Posso sistemare in qlc modo?
LO dovrei utilizzare alcune volte prima di riuscire /poterlo sistemare, rischio rotture?
CCerto di un vostro gradito aiuto.

Sembra che ci sia aria nell'impianto.
Prova ad aprire e chiudere il tetto alcune volte.
Controlla le guide del tetto a soffietto per verificare la presenza di perdite d'olio.
Il problema dovrebbe risolversi dopo aver azionato il tetto in apertura e chiusura per qualche ciclo.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
It looks like there is air in the system.
Try opening and closing the roof a few times.
Check the channels of your pop-up roof for oil leaks.
The problem should be resolved after cycling the roof open and closed a few times.
Yours,

Frans

 

[Adriano16]

Sembra che ci sia aria nell'impianto.
Prova ad aprire e chiudere il tetto alcune volte.
Controllare le guide del tetto a soffietto per verificare la presenza di perdite d'olio.
Il problema dovrebbe risolversi dopo aver azionato il tetto in apertura e chiusura per qualche ciclo.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sembra che ci sia aria nell'impianto.
Prova ad aprire e chiudere il tetto un paio di volte.
Controllate le guide del vostro tetto a soffietto per eventuali perdite d'olio.
Il problema dovrebbe risolversi dopo aver aperto e chiuso il tetto un paio di volte.
Il tuo,

Francesco

Ho già provato 4/5 cicli completi consecutivi, nulla sempre uguale, non ho notato olio, dove dovrei contro