Short journeys and Cali's

[sidepod]

Nah, another diesel for local when diesel is heading to £2 a litre? You can get a nice and simple e-Up! for less than 8k these days.

Largely depends on the usage case. An old school diesel does 50-60mpg all day long.
Average gallon/week running errands?

Diesel could be £3/litre and its still a sensible option IMO.

 

[RedWhiteMonkey]

Up until around six months ago I used to daily drive our Cali to and from work. The seemingly ever-increasing diesel price (currently pushing over 2,50€ a litre here), the desire to stop adding non holiday miles onto the Cali and having a wall charger fitted at home last week got us looking at options. We looked around at different options for a small electric car to cover my daily commute and eventually settled on leasing an electric Corsa. It isn’t an exciting car (well, it certainly accelerates faster than the Cali!), but it does all I ask it to and it costs pennies to run.

Based on my annual 15,000km the Corsa costs me just under 225€ a month to run (200€ lease cost and 25€ charging). The same distance in the Cali requires me to fill up nearly twice a month, at current diesel prices here I’ve calculated that at around 285€ a month. Basically, we now have a second car for less than the cost of having just the Cali.

The combination of a Cali and small electric car works well for us. We will have fully paid off the Cali in just over a year from now and then plan to hold onto it for as long as possible. Once the lease on the Corsa ends we will look another electric car, there are more coming onto the market so there is a good choice out there.

Everyone needs to look at their own situation but if you can charge at home then electric is hard to beat.

 

[Dave bee]

The above figure only works if you ignore, road tax, insurance, services and any additional expenses for the corsa. As stated you makes your choice personally, both ways can work

 

[RedWhiteMonkey]

The above figure only works if you ignore, road tax, insurance, services and any additional expenses for the corsa. As stated you makes your choice personally, both ways can work

Road tax is zero for electric cars in Germany and the monthly insurance costs is still less than the 60€ difference I calculated earlier. Service package is included in the lease so apart from some washer fluid and maybe a set of tyres and wiper blades I can't think of any other costs. The cost benefits of not putting 15,000 unnecessary kilometres on the Cali is a major gain.

 

[Black Forest]

I just got a wee Up to go with the Cali. Lots of fun, tsi.

Indeed, T6.1 and Up Gti here. Cracking little car.

 

[stoobthealien]

Road tax is zero for electric cars in Germany and the monthly insurance costs is still less than the 60€ difference I calculated earlier. Service package is included in the lease so apart from some washer fluid and maybe a set of tyres and wiper blades I can't think of any other costs. The cost benefits of not putting 15,000 unnecessary kilometres on the Cali is a major gain.

Sadly not in the UK anymore...

 

[RedWhiteMonkey]

Sadly not in the UK anymore...

I also got 4,000€ from the German Government for buying electric. I used that as a deposit to get a lower monthly rate though.

 

[Gliderbee California 6.1]

I think driving the Cali as a daily (or similar) would just do my head in! It’s a lovely drive but only on Euro roads, not in the UK.

Interesting that you write this: I just returned from a trip to the UK (great trip BTW, and I love the UK), but was surprised that the small roads are even worse than those in Belgium ... We were behind Rwanda, Oezbekistan, Benin en Indonesia in a ranking from the WEForum.

 

[stoobthealien]

Interesting that you write this: I just returned from a trip to the UK (great trip BTW, and I love the UK), but was surprised that the small roads are even worse than those in Belgium ... We were behind Rwanda, Oezbekistan, Benin en Indonesia in a ranking from the WEForum.

I've just got back to the UK from a trip to rural Belgium (Flanders way) and I agree - at least your rural roads are generally big slabs of concrete which don't seem to be broken up. The UK ones are pretty bad....that being said - I don't have an issue driving the Cali about with them, you get used to it

 

[Lost Boy]

When we say "short journeys" and "because the oil doesn't get hot enough", has anyone got any parameters? I appreciate that longer is better, but is there a definition of short? is it until the oil reaches 80/90/100 degrees? Just wondered?

 

[sidepod]

I think with diesels it’s all about exhaust temperature which effects dpf/egr/adblue etc.

Short trips and stop/start doesn’t allow high enough exhaust temps.

 

[Lost Boy]

I think with diesels it’s all about exhaust temperature which effects dpf/egr/adblue etc.

Short trips and stop/start doesn’t allow high enough exhaust temps.

Understood, but if we cant measure exhaust temp, would we say a 25 min joureny and oil temp getting to 95 degrees and stop start turned off (always) is short?

 

[stoobthealien]

The thing as well

Understood, but if we cant measure exhaust temp, would we say a 25 min joureny and oil temp getting to 95 degrees and stop start turned off (always) is short?

In my experience it's more complicated than that as it depends on how hard the engine is working as well - if we were towing our caravan with the Jaguar we could clear the DPF light in quite a short urban distance! Less so without

 

[temporarysecretary]

Understood, but if we cant measure exhaust temp, would we say a 25 min joureny and oil temp getting to 95 degrees and stop start turned off (always) is short?

Too short is if the van cant sort its self out in the driving you allow it.

A DPF regen occurs when the soot reaches around 30g in the DPF. This is usually every 150-250 miles depending on the driving and takes approx 15-20 mins to complete. From my observations if the van decides to regeneration any speed or rev driving will allow it to complete.

Parking up or sitting in traffic will not allow the exhaust to hold temperature and may cause it to abandon the regeneration. The engine will raise the exhaust temperature its self by injecting more fuel and also has an injector in the exhaust to boost it if necessary. So you will regen in flowing traffic aslong as you allow approx 10 mins to warm up, 20 mins to regen and 5 to cool down.

So a short journey when the DPF is due is anything less than 35 mins... if the Regen started at the start of that journey and not near the end.

You then also get into the realms of oil degradation, allowing longer drives at 90 degrees plus oil temp allows the van to burn off any condensation picked up from being parked up and cold started. Some engines you will see gunk in the oil filler which on older cars would suggest blown head gasket. On these its from the condensation, vans that do long runs will see none/less of it.

Lastly a run isn't run time its mileage at temperature. Sitting in traffic with the engine idling is bad for the engine and can contribute to contaminated oil and engine wear. Stop/start instead prevents the engine maintaining its temperature and oil pressure and in my opinion is worse.

Some of the German garage youtube channels believe these engines have an underpowered oil pump (also wet belt) that doesn't provide adequate pressure below 1500 revs, a DSG is trying to live like that all the time.

We have a fleet of work vans that do hours of idling to run inverters to power things up in the street and are leased so they only get 25k miles servicing, the oil on the dipstick looks and smells like diesel and they do a whole bottle of adblue every 2k miles.

 

[temporarysecretary]

When we say "short journeys" and "because the oil doesn't get hot enough", has anyone got any parameters? I appreciate that longer is better, but is there a definition of short? is it until the oil reaches 80/90/100 degrees? Just wondered?

I am happy anywhere between 90-110.

I treat anything sub 90 as warming up and dont exceed 2k revs. Once past that ill always try and get both turbos going once or twice in a run. Good accelerate up a hill or slip road to make sure its all getting used.

I believe the dash gives a warning at 130 which you will only see in the mountains, hopefully not in the UK. These engines particularly the biturbo do run hot but in normal conditions 110 will be the top end.

 

[stoobthealien]

Too short is if the van cant sort its self out in the driving you allow it.

A DPF regen occurs when the soot reaches around 30g in the DPF. This is usually every 150-250 miles depending on the driving and takes approx 15-20 mins to complete. From my observations if the van decides to regeneration any speed or rev driving will allow it to complete.

Parking up or sitting in traffic will not allow the exhaust to hold temperature and may cause it to abandon the regeneration. The engine will raise the exhaust temperature its self by injecting more fuel and also has an injector in the exhaust to boost it if necessary. So you will regen in flowing traffic aslong as you allow approx 10 mins to warm up, 20 mins to regen and 5 to cool down.

So a short journey when the DPF is due is anything less than 35 mins.

You then also get into the realms of oil degradation, allowing longer drives at 90 degrees plus oil temp allows the van to burn off any condensation picked up from being parked up and cold started. Some engines you will see gunk in the oil filler which on older cars would suggest blown head gasket. On these its from the condensation, vans that do long runs will see none/less of it.

Lastly a run isn't run time its mileage at temperature. Sitting in traffic with the engine idling is bad for the engine and can contribute to contaminated oil and engine wear. Stop/start instead prevents the engine maintaining its temperature and oil pressure and in my opinion is worse.

Some of the German garage youtube channels believe these engines have an underpowered oil pump (also wet belt) that doesn't provide adequate pressure below 1500 revs, a DSG is trying to live like that all the time.

We have a fleet of work vans that do hours of idling to run inverters to power things up in the street and are leased so they only get 25k miles servicing, the oil on the dipstick looks and smells like diesel and they do a whole bottle of adblue every 2k miles.

No wet belts in the Cali though

 

[sidepod]

Interesting point re German toobers quoting under rated oil pumps?
Difficult to quantify without a pressure gauge.
Anything around 70psi at 1500 rpm would be fine in my experience?
Pressure relief is probably set around 70 anyway.

It’s an older example but my 4 started flagging low oil pressure warnings.
A quick check of the pressure switch showed oil weeping past the electrical connection.
I replaced it obviously but also installed a pressure gauge temporarily.
45psi at idle and 70 just off idle.
Healthy engine with 174k on the clock.

Back to the point. I believe these heavily stifled engines need more thrashing to keep them healthy.

 

[temporarysecretary]

No wet belts in the Cali though

Oil pump belt is a wet belt and sits in the sump.

They just dont cause a lot of issues as its not under alot of torque.

 

[temporarysecretary]

Interesting point re German toobers quoting under rated oil pumps?
Difficult to quantify without a pressure gauge.
Anything around 70psi at 1500 rpm would be fine in my experience?
Pressure relief is probably set around 70 anyway.

It’s an older example but my 4 started flagging low oil pressure warnings.
A quick check of the pressure switch showed oil weeping past the electrical connection.
I replaced it obviously but also installed a pressure gauge temporarily.
45psi at idle and 70 just off idle.
Healthy engine with 174k on the clock.

Back to the point. I believe these heavily stifled engines need more thrashing to keep them healthy.

A good thrashing helps all engines.

Some info here on the pump getting upgraded on the rebuilt engines.

CXEC 2.0 TDI (CR) Engine Rebuild | MIK Motoren

Engine rebuild 2.0 TDI CXEC for VW T6. Professional repair from 4,977 €. Enquire now – MIK Motoren GmbH.

www.mikmotoren.de

Ive seen too many videos to pull a specific example up but if you look for some of the German engine tear downs with auto dubbed English on its quite interesting.

https://youtube.com/@redheadzylinderkopftechnik?si=c0LDk1MQO1tm8XM2

Is a good place to start

 

[sidepod]

A good thrashing helps all engines.

Some info here on the pump getting upgraded on the rebuilt engines.

CXEC 2.0 TDI (CR) Engine Rebuild | MIK Motoren

Engine rebuild 2.0 TDI CXEC for VW T6. Professional repair from 4,977 €. Enquire now – MIK Motoren GmbH.

www.mikmotoren.de

Ive seen too many videos to pull a specific example up but if you look for some of the German engine tear downs with auto dubbed English on its quite interesting.

https://youtube.com/@redheadzylinderkopftechnik?si=c0LDk1MQO1tm8XM2

Is a good place to start

WOW! Seriously? Reading that list suggests the base engine is a heap of junk?
Replacing pistons and liners, plus improved lower end bearings and all for around Euro 5k?
If it’s as good as they claim then that’s a bargain!

The last engine I built cost me £1500 in machining of the block alone!

 

[temporarysecretary]

WOW! Seriously? Reading that list suggests the base engine is a heap of junk?
Replacing pistons and liners, plus improved lower end bearings and all for around Euro 5k?
If it’s as good as they claim then that’s a bargain!

The last engine I built cost me £1500 in machining of the block alone!

This is a biturbo though. Have you seen all the failures on the T6 forum after high oil consumption?

 

[FivetonesCali]

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