New engine needed - what should we think about?

[Californication69]

I second that - best car I had for that was a Saab 9-5 Aero. Even the 2.3 HPT petrol at stock at 250hp it had huge torque that came in very low and stayed for ages. Useless at traffic lights but once into 2nd gear and turbo on full song from around 1500 revs it would pull like a train; something a lad in a Civic Type R found out! I had mine tuned by a race company to 300hp and 450nm low down torque and bilstein suspension. Wonderful car easy to drive and happily overtake in 5th gear (was only 5 speed manual) out accelerating most exotic cars. We chickened out on German autobahn at 157 mph and it was still pulling..................so as said a custom map giving low down torque is best

Sorry for hijack thread.
I’ll PM you, I’m can’t. You’re not a member.
Where did you get Saab engine mods done ?
Abbott ?

 

[Patrick Lima]

Hi forum,

I would have wished that my first post would have been on a different topic, but here we are.

We have received the sad news that our 2015 180 Cali needs a new engine, since the current one has been considered defect (excessive oil use, EGR valve with C suffix etc. etc.). We have no insurance or warranty left to cover this, but besides this, we love the car and everything else on it working flawlessly except for the engine, so we just want to swallow the bitter pill, get the engine replaced and move on with our lives, preferably with the car.

VW has given us a price estimate around 15-16K euro for fitting a new engine, and we're now thinking about going somewhere else to get it fixed and hopefully save some money. My question is - what should we think about when talking to potential garages? Which parts of the engine do we want to make sure is changed, not to end up in the same situation again? Do we want to get an original engine from VW? Are refurbished engines from e.g. Poland to be aware of, or could that be a feasible alternative? In short - I want to gather all information I can to ensure this is done right, and would appreciate all help and advice you could provide.

Anyone who has researched in the past years to now, know that that 180 engine is a lemon and destined to die as of its first km. I hope that you were aware. It is the engine to avoid at all costs and I would inquire on replacing it with a durable 140ps engine with its non biturbo. It's too bad that VW does not acknowledge that they built one of the worst engines in car history. And that's the one.

 

[camperlifenorth]

• Reading event memory, error codes on unreasonable signal exhaust gas recirculation
• - indicates EGR valve Fault see below !
• What fault codes are showing up ?

• Measure reference voltage, sensor = ok
• Measure voltage within sensor = not ok

• Defective EGR valve - replacement complete exhaust cooler needed - likely Blocked from low mileage short runs - can be flushed up out for a few hundred Euros then check flow & operation!

• Switch f bonnet contact greased, but replacement is required - bonnet switch provides feedback to BCM and can throw up an engine light on the Dash if faulty !

• Particle filter clogged due to high oil consumption -
• Could be clogged from short journeys and a blocked / low flow EGR = 18k kilometres = Force a Regen to clear the DPF (dealer / indie can do it at cost or Carista /VCDS etc !

• “Probably defective engine due to high oil consumption “
• If calsberg did garages !!!!
• Probably is not a diagnosis it’s a get out of jail free card !
  = Does this all sound a bit suspect on a very low mileage engine ?

edit; does your van have Add Blue ? (I suspect not)

Correct, it does not have Add Blue.

 

[camperlifenorth]

Anyone who has researched in the past years to now, know that that 180 engine is a lemon and destined to die as of its first km. I hope that you were aware. It is the engine to avoid at all costs and I would inquire on replacing it with a durable 140ps engine with its non biturbo. It's too bad that VW does not acknowledge that they built one of the worst engines in car history. And that's the one.

We were absolutely not aware of this issue, wouldn't have bought the van if we were. It was a simple googling away, but I could never have imagined this. Spent all our time thinking about whether we should have an Ocean or a Beach etc. ... Little did we know.

As far as I understand, it's not that easy to switch to a completely different engine.

 

[da_murphster]

We were absolutely not aware of this issue, wouldn't have bought the van if we were. It was a simple googling away, but I could never have imagined this. Spent all our time thinking about whether we should have an Ocean or a Beach etc. ... Little did we know.

As far as I understand, it's not that easy to switch to a completely different engine.

180 engine is fine, it’s the egr that is the issue!

Honestly, new engine, delete egr and they are good.

On the plus side the California has such strong residuals it offsets the unfortunate cost of these things.

 

[WelshGas]

We were absolutely not aware of this issue, wouldn't have bought the van if we were. It was a simple googling away, but I could never have imagined this. Spent all our time thinking about whether we should have an Ocean or a Beach etc. ... Little did we know.

As far as I understand, it's not that easy to switch to a completely different engine.

Don’t believe everything you read on the WWW.
At the milage you have mentioned you are very unlikely to have the problem that “ some “ 180 engines have, and I do mean some.

 

[Perfectos]

Don’t believe everything you read on the WWW.
At the milage you have mentioned you are very unlikely to have the problem that “ some “ 180 engines have, and I do mean some.

See post # 62

 

[Perfectos]

Don’t believe everything you read on the WWW.
At the milage you have mentioned you are very unlikely to have the problem that “ some “ 180 engines have, and I do mean some.

The engine is barely run in , if it’s failed at 18,000 kilometres thats 11k miles ! 9 years old!
how long has the op owned this van ? With no previous issues , 9 years old, 18k how many owners ?

VW should / would be all over it regardless of warranty if they thought an engine did not last 10,000 miles ! Or this was genuine?

where has the van been (not been ) how may owners?

the lack of Detail or response to questions (detail) and the symptoms!
is this a wind up & 180 bashing ?

 

[Perfectos]

Correct, it does not have Add Blue.

You read my post, querying various things in the “diagnosis” of a faulty engine “probably “ !
, and chose to respond to singularly to my ”edit” regarding ad blue, which your van would not have had !
I simply cannot comprehend that an engine has failed at 11k miles regardless if the van is 9 years old.
either you are a cash cow for the dealer or VW have produced an engine that is simply a 1 in a million failure?
edit: 1 in a million failures do happen , but the lack of specific details are not supporting the hypothesis?
i.e. the use of a 180 engine dictates it’s failures?

 

[camperlifenorth]

The engine is barely run in , if it’s failed at 18,000 kilometres thats 11k miles ! 9 years old!
how long has the op owned this van ? With no previous issues , 9 years old, 18k how many owners ?

VW should / would be all over it regardless of warranty if they thought an engine did not last 10,000 miles ! Or this was genuine?

where has the van been (not been ) how may owners?

the lack of Detail or response to questions (detail) and the symptoms!
is this a wind up & 180 bashing ?

We have only owned the car since June. One owner before us but bought it from a dealer in Germany. No reports of excessive oil use before that and all looks good in the service book. Trying to process this with the dealer as well but no response from there, and since we don’t live in Germany we can’t go there either and talk to them upfront.

We drove it for a couple of thousand km’s this summer and had to top up oil at least two-three times during 2500 km. Also the DPF came on all the time after driving for a while.

I have asked VW about goodwill now and I’m also starting to make contacts with garages for second opinions, we are so sad about this situation and just want to get the car on the road again. :/ And I really appreciate all help and advice here!

 

[camperlifenorth]

Just caught up on the previous posts. I agree with others that 18,000 km “mileage” (is there a better term for km ?) is way too low for engine wear, and indicates to me either, early life catastrophic failure, or VW’s diagnosis is wrong. I’d also fully agree that a second opinion is a good idea. I’m not sure which country you’re in, but help with the assessment, you might obtain an engine oil analysis, unless you’ve already had this. The analysis would pick up the level of metals contamination etc.

Given the low usage of the van, I can better understand your desire to keep the van and repair it, as it’s basically a new van. We’ve had our van 2 years, and already done about the same distance!

Yes, our plan is also to use the van far more than the previous owner have done (there has only been one owner before us), started out with a long trip during summer and then all of this happened. :/ I suggested an oil analysis to VW, but they said that such a test wouldn’t help — they are “sure” that the engine needs replacement and “advice against all attempts to fix parts of it”. We’re taking it somewhere else.

 

[camperlifenorth]

You read my post, querying various things in the “diagnosis” of a faulty engine “probably “ !
, and chose to respond to singularly to my ”edit” regarding ad blue, which your van would not have had !
I simply cannot comprehend that an engine has failed at 11k miles regardless if the van is 9 years old.
either you are a cash cow for the dealer or VW have produced an engine that is simply a 1 in a million failure?
edit: 1 in a million failures do happen , but the lack of specific details are not supporting the hypothesis?
i.e. the use of a 180 engine dictates it’s failures?

Sorry, I just wanted to answer the direct question first, didn’t at all mean to be ungrateful. :/ I really appreciate that you took your time and responded in such a detailed way.

I don’t know what error codes that did show up, they did not tell us that. And regarding your question “Does this all sound a bit suspect on a very low mileage engine” — I really have no idea!! I know nothing about cars, there’s no way I could question this verdict in a qualitative way, that’s why I turned to this forum.

We had no idea about the issues with these engines when buying the van, we thought low mileage was a good thing. When the car started to use lots of oil during our first trip, of course you google and then find all the things said about this type of engine. I tend to expect the worst, always, and when VW then says what I’ve already read about, I don’t know how to question them. No one would be happier than me if we don’t have to replace the engine!

 

[clarinetbcn]

This 180 saga continues to spread pain throughout the VW community. Even the one member on this forum who in the past has defended the 180 has recently acknowledged that the 180 is “a lottery,” i.e., no one knows which one will fail under which circumstances. I believe that, with all of their research capabilities, VW does know, but their commercial and legal advisers insist that they not acknowledge the problem. The sad result is that the only way to consider ownership of a 180 is to do something illegal: block off the EGR valve and cooler. VW, you are capable of so much more. Why don’t you step up and fix this, so we can go back to appreciating the Cali and everything it does better than any other compact camper?

 

[camperlifenorth]

OK I now realize a big mistake I made in the beginning of this thread that might change everything said until now. Of course the car has done 180 000 km's, not 18 000 km's! Sorry, I guess it changes a lot here, and also sheds some light on my pretty basic knowledge when it comes to cars (and to the system of units).

 

[WelshGas]

OK I now realize a big mistake I made in the beginning of this thread that might change everything said until now. Of course the car has done 180 000 km's, not 18 000 km's! Sorry, I guess it changes a lot here, and also sheds some light on my pretty basic knowledge when it comes to cars (and to the system of units).

That makes a lot of difference. It would seem VW are correct in their diagnosis.

 

[clarinetbcn]

OK I now realize a big mistake I made in the beginning of this thread that might change everything said until now. Of course the car has done 180 000 km's, not 18 000 km's! Sorry, I guess it changes a lot here, and also sheds some light on my pretty basic knowledge when it comes to cars (and to the system of units).

Well, that’s a big update. That said, for most modern diesel engines 180,000km is at the very least 1/3 of their useful life, as opposed to gasoline engines which often fail at that mileage since they are less robustly designed to function at much lower compression levels.

 

[soulstyledevon]

OK I now realize a big mistake I made in the beginning of this thread that might change everything said until now. Of course the car has done 180 000 km's, not 18 000 km's! Sorry, I guess it changes a lot here, and also sheds some light on my pretty basic knowledge when it comes to cars (and to the system of units).

Post #13 makes even more sense now….

 

[Perfectos]

OK I now realize a big mistake I made in the beginning of this thread that might change everything said until now. Of course the car has done 180 000 km's, not 18 000 km's! Sorry, I guess it changes a lot here, and also sheds some light on my pretty basic knowledge when it comes to cars (and to the system of units).

That’s a fundamental game Change

 

[Corradobrit]

car has done 180 000 km's, not 18 000 km's!

 

[Hawthorn37]

Yes, our plan is also to use the van far more than the previous owner have done (there has only been one owner before us), started out with a long trip during summer and then all of this happened. :/ I suggested an oil analysis to VW, but they said that such a test wouldn’t help — they are “sure” that the engine needs replacement and “advice against all attempts to fix parts of it”. We’re taking it somewhere else.

An oil analysis to detect metals in the oil, and other contaminants would not cost very much. In the UK you can get this for around €80. No matter what VW are telling you, if I were in your shoes, this would be a no-brainer action in order to establish some facts. It might support what VW are saying, or it may not. I’ll add a typical analysis service available in the UK. I’m sure you’ll be able to source a similar service where you are.

Car Engine Oil Analysis | Best Oil Testing Lab UK | The Oil Lab

Engine Oil Analysis can identify the four biggest engine killers before it’s too late! Routine testing can tell you where they come from and what they can do to your equipment.

www.theoillab.co.uk

 

[Hawthorn37]

OK I now realize a big mistake I made in the beginning of this thread that might change everything said until now. Of course the car has done 180 000 km's, not 18 000 km's! Sorry, I guess it changes a lot here, and also sheds some light on my pretty basic knowledge when it comes to cars (and to the system of units).

Oops - never mind, if you’re keen to have it fixed then you still need to investigate. It does suggest that VW may be correct.

However, the 10x higher distance travelled would persuade me to strongly consider going down another route, suggested by a few contributors to this thread, of selling this van (either whole or broken up), and investing the money saved from a replacement engine into getting a replacement van, and this time maybe steering away from this particular engine - for your sanity!! ?

 

[Patrick Lima]

We were absolutely not aware of this issue, wouldn't have bought the van if we were. It was a simple googling away, but I could never have imagined this. Spent all our time thinking about whether we should have an Ocean or a Beach etc. ... Little did we know.

As far as I understand, it's not that easy to switch to a completely different engine.

I am sorry this happed to you. Just to reply to the one who said, « do not believe everything you read on forum », i had many vw enthousiasts and mechanics warn me not to buy the 180 ps when I bought mine one year ago, also a 2015, and when I was looking on Mobile.de, 1 out of 2 cars with 180ps announced new replaced engine. I had a serious roof line rust issue with mine that i bought second hand and with enough evidence, I was granted a fully warranty repair by VW headquarters in Germany which is in fact in its 5th week of repair, a big one, which I am supposed to pick up this week. My big advantage was that it was always serviced at a vw dealer until its present 118,000km. I will post the conclusion soon of this VW commitment to customer service. So what I am saying is, try to send to VW Headquarters Customer Service a concise overview of your cars history, with persuasive evidence that your cars engine cannot have failed already from its young age under normal driving conditions. All claims are treated individually and I have a feeling that they avoid to go to court with such claims. They still have a reputation to rebuild. Try it, you have nothing to loose except time.

 

[Norfolk Jim]

Sorry for hijack thread.
I’ll PM you, I’m can’t. You’re not a member.
Where did you get Saab engine mods done ?
Abbott ?

Abbott Racing in Manningtree Essex - https://www.abbottsaab.com/

 

[Perfectos]

VW commitment to customer service. So what I am saying is, try to send to VW Headquarters Customer Service a concise overview of your cars history, with persuasive evidence that your cars engine cannot have failed already from its young age

The van has done 180 kilometers.