Nervous newcomer

[Mollie]

We have owned motor homes for the last five years. First a 7m Knaus with French bed. Then a 7.5m A Class Pilote with Island bed, two TVs etc. We sold that in October owing to health circumstances. The Pilote was really nice but too big and freedom of access was a regular problem.
Good friends of ours , also retired and not especially agile, have owned an Ocean for a few years and are great advocates for them. So, what’s holding us up now we are ready to get going again? Well it’s a nervous tick as to how well insulated they are and how effective and environmentally friendly the heating system is. Can any members help us with comments? Once that’s resolved, I think we might just go ahead

 

[Hotel California]

Welcome , don't worry a Cali can take a TV if needed but i suggest to leave it home and do outdoor stuff when camping...so you will not need your favorite soap to fall asleep with...

 

[Velma's Dad]

Re your query about the heating system and its environmental performance. Well as you know it burns diesel, and diesel is a fossil fuel so there's no getting around that.

On the other hand, let's assume you use gas for heating at home (yes?), and you turn the house thermostat down when you go away in the van.

Some numbers to show what I mean. During the heating season an average house uses maybe 100 KWh per day so let's say you save half that by turning the heating right down to 10 or 12 degrees while you're away (I don't, but do as I say not as I do, okay? ). That would save 50 kWh of gas, or about 10 kg of carbon per day. Very approximately of course.

Heating the Cali overnight depends a lot on how long you run the heater for, but in my experience it uses very little diesel as it's a teeny tiny space to heat. It doesn't even register on the fuel gauge the next morning. From what I've read (including on this forum) it uses 0.25 litres/hour on medium setting, so if you kept that going for 8 hours that would be 2 litres per night, which is about 5.4 kg of carbon. In practice you won't use that much, unless you're up on an Alp or something.

Those are very rough sums but may be helpful in taking a view.

Of course diesel is a big problem for local air quality but that's mainly an urban issue so if you're not camping in town it probably isn't a big factor.

 

[Velma's Dad]

P.S. I assume a motorhome would be using propane for space heating. I've no idea how much you'd be using but I just checked and it appears 1kg of propane (or butane) contains about 0.8kg** of carbon. So you can do the math based on your experience of MH ops. I'd be interested in the answer.

** [EDIT] I was being thick there, I should have used the factor for the amount of CO2 generated by burning, which would be about 1.67 kg of carbon per litre of propane. And there are 1.96 litres of propane per kg weight of the pressurised gas. Doh...

 

[calikev]

Re your query about the heating system and its environmental performance. Well as you know it burns diesel, and diesel is a fossil fuel so there's no getting around that.

On the other hand, let's assume you use gas for heating at home (yes?), and you turn the house thermostat down when you go away in the van.

Some numbers to show what I mean. During the heating season an average house uses maybe 100 KWh per day so let's say you save half that by turning the heating right down to 10 or 12 degrees while you're away (I don't, but do as I say not as I do, okay? ). That would save 50 kWh of gas, or about 10 kg of carbon per day. Very approximately of course.

Heating the Cali overnight depends a lot on how long you run the heater for, but in my experience it uses very little diesel as it's a teeny tiny space to heat. It doesn't even register on the fuel gauge the next morning. From what I've read (including on this forum) it uses 0.25 litres/hour on medium setting, so if you kept that going for 8 hours that would be 2 litres per night, which is about 5.4 kg of carbon. In practice you won't use that much, unless you're up on an Alp or something.

Those are very rough sums but may be helpful in taking a view.

Of course diesel is a big problem for local air quality but that's mainly an urban issue so if you're not camping in town it probably isn't a big factor.

Wow that’s the most detailed reply I have heard on any post

 

[Velma's Dad]

Wow that’s the most detailed reply I have heard on any post

And the most likely to contain errors, so can someone check my facts?

 

[B J G]

I'll not answer the environment comparison directly but having come from years of caravanning and a Motorhome big difference is that the Ocean has steel sides with no insulation as such. This is most noticeable in hot sunny weather, the heater can compensate for the cold weather, the fuel usage and potential environment harm will be insignificant compared to driving to your destination. If on a mains supply there are small electric heaters that can be utilised.

If you have previously been cossetted by a large Motorhome you will miss the onboard toilet/washroom and room to walk about plus the separate sleeping facility etc.

The Ocean can as you say go anywhere that a car can unless there are vehicle type or acute height restrictions.

 

[Elly Swanson]

The Cali interior is more “clinical”, minimalist and less homely than your motor home would have been (even as compared to other campervans) so that may make it feel cooler than it actually is.

If you do go for it you’ll need a change of mindset and think about practical solutions that work for you guys. Think thermal undies/pj’s, hot water bottles, wearing layers, using microfibre towels. It’s a whole different adventure with lots of problem solving along the way. It all depends on what sort of people you are, the expectations you have and how you want to feel when you’re away.

If you want an adventure and to keep active in mind, body and spirit, get a Cali. Go for an ocean if it’s just you 2 most of the time and you want cupboards, sink/water system and fridge built in and the ease of an electric pop top.

If you need moral or technical support everyone in this club is great and really ready to share knowledge, skills, experiences, etc. No question is too small or daft and there’s no putting people down or nasty comments. Just good people wanting to share and spread the Cali love .

Oh, and take up tai chi and do it outdoors when you’re away. It’ll warm you up as well as making you feel fabulous and ready to face any campervanning challenges. You do it slower than this fella but the results are the same !

 

[Velma's Dad]

If on a mains supply there are small electric heaters that can be utilised.

Practically speaking that's quite right of course, but the OP was asking about environmental aspects also. I was going to point out that heating a van electrically using EHU isn't very green because of the higher carbon content of grid electricity (per kWh) versus directly burning gas/diesel to heat the van.

BUT I just checked and it is quite amazing how the carbon footprint of grid electricity in the has fallen in only a few years. From 0.52 kg of CO2 per kWh in 2012 to 0.28 kg in 2016, just four years later (Imperial College study*). I knew there had been a big change, but wow! Sorry for a sudden off topic mini geekathon.

Anyway, back to Calis - yes it's a very different experience to a MH. And you won't use much fuel of any kind for water heating: in a Cali it's just a kettle full at a time!

* https://eandt.theiet.org/content/ar...lectricity-generation-have-halved-since-2012/

 

[Elly Swanson]

We have owned motor homes for the last five years. First a 7m Knaus with French bed. Then a 7.5m A Class Pilote with Island bed, two TVs etc. We sold that in October owing to health circumstances. The Pilote was really nice but too big and freedom of access was a regular problem.
Good friends of ours , also retired and not especially agile, have owned an Ocean for a few years and are great advocates for them. So, what’s holding us up now we are ready to get going again? Well it’s a nervous tick as to how well insulated they are and how effective and environmentally friendly the heating system is. Can any members help us with comments? Once that’s resolved, I think we might just go ahead

If they’re very good friends, would they take you out for a “pretend” camping experience for a day, lend you their Cali or let you camp on their driveway in it? That may give you a better idea. It’s a big ask, but they may be happy for it and just never thought to offer.

 

[2into1]

A Cali Ocean at 38mpg and the heating on all night would do less harm to the environment than your old Knaus and 5 thick sweaters each!

 

[Bellcrew]

The Cali interior is more “clinical”, minimalist and less homely than your motor home would have been (even as compared to other campervans) so that may make it feel cooler than it actually is.

If you do go for it you’ll need a change of mindset and think about practical solutions that work for you guys. Think thermal undies/pj’s, hot water bottles, wearing layers, using microfibre towels. It’s a whole different adventure with lots of problem solving along the way. It all depends on what sort of people you are, the expectations you have and how you want to feel when you’re away.

If you want an adventure and to keep active in mind, body and spirit, get a Cali. Go for an ocean if it’s just you 2 most of the time and you want cupboards, sink/water system and fridge built in and the ease of an electric pop top.

If you need moral or technical support everyone in this club is great and really ready to share knowledge, skills, experiences, etc. No question is too small or daft and there’s no putting people down or nasty comments. Just good people wanting to share and spread the Cali love .

Oh, and take up tai chi and do it outdoors when you’re away. It’ll warm you up as well as making you feel fabulous and ready to face any campervanning challenges. You do it slower than this fella but the results are the same !

We sit around in shirt sleeves when the heater is on no matter how cold it is outside, the upstairs bed area can be cool when the bed is initially pulled down but soon warms up. Use a decent duvet and mattress topper and you will be fine, we do have a Bradrup internal liner which helps.

 

[Elly Swanson]

We sit around in shirt sleeves when the heater is on no matter how cold it is outside, the upstairs bed area can be cool when the bed is initially pulled down but soon warms up. Use a decent duvet and mattress topper and you will be fine, we do have a Bradrup internal liner which helps.

I’m a bit of an eco nutter (no, no, spendthrift doesn’t come into it , don’t listen to my hubby). Camping and at home it’s layers and other techniques to keep warm and heating as a last resort. But then I am of a generation where when at the seaside you’d have to scour the beach for coal!!

 

[MattBW]

A T6 ocean with the adblue etc is far cleaner than most other motorhomes on the road today.

 

[B J G]

A T6 ocean with the adblue etc is far cleaner than most other motorhomes on the road today.

Adblue doesn't in itself make it cleaner it merely helps to keep the engine exhaust soot free, no effect on heater though.

 

[MattBW]

It lowers NO from the exhaust fumes so is certainly cleaner than something without it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Velma's Dad]

Matt is quite right that a T6 Cali will be generally a lot 'cleaner' than an older van with a Euro 5 engine, but It's not simply because it uses Adblue. Some manufacturers use a different solution to achieve the Euro 6 NOx limits, that doesn't involve a liquid additive.

A current model Peugeot based MH, for example, will also have a Euro 6 engine (also using Adblue). Whether it's more or less 'emitting' (CO2, NOx, particulates) than a Cali will depend on a lot of thungs including engine power, vehicle weight etc. (And of course whether or not they fitted 'defeat' software to cheat their way around the regulations... )

 

[Mollie]

Thanks everyone for such helpful comments. For me the decision to go with the California will be all about getting more connected with being out and about and self reliance as we use our ingenuity rather than leaving the mega wagon to solve and sort every permutation. Now I just need to find one that works for us

 

[calimera]

Welcome Mollie
Rent one before you buy. Best thing we did .

 

[Lorri]

 

[oryx white]

Downstairs is as cosy and cosy can be with the double glazing. Upstairs is fine with the heater on three - you might need an extra blanket if it's freezing and you might want a ladder if popping up is a challenge. And it's beautifully cool in summer up top.

But hire one as #calimera suggests and try it on for size ...

 

[Ksar-el-kebir]

We have owned motor homes for the last five years. First a 7m Knaus with French bed. Then a 7.5m A Class Pilote with Island bed, two TVs etc. We sold that in October owing to health circumstances. The Pilote was really nice but too big and freedom of access was a regular problem.
Good friends of ours , also retired and not especially agile, have owned an Ocean for a few years and are great advocates for them. So, what’s holding us up now we are ready to get going again? Well it’s a nervous tick as to how well insulated they are and how effective and environmentally friendly the heating system is. Can any members help us with comments? Once that’s resolved, I think we might just go ahead

Warm as toast especially if there are just two of you and you let down the pop top when you go to bed.
Cost of running the heater is minimal as is the environmental impact. Mine has a solar panel (thanks Roger Donoghue) so I no longer need an electric hook up. Also has VB air suspension and on "car park" mode can be lowered to enable easy access for the less agile passengers.