Roof (anti-) sag. Another thread!

[sidepod]

Currently on trial. Simple/cheap easy to install.

Place your bets.

 

[willwander]

Mines never sagged

 

[sidepod]

Mines never sagged

?

 

[WelshGas]

Currently on trial. Simple/cheap easy to install.

Place your bets.

View attachment 141301

How easy is it to remove the item if the Hydraulic pressure drops on that side, but the roof is prevented from sagging by the item/ lock.

 

[sidepod]

Well that is precisely what is being tested.
The straps will obviously hold the roof up but will they stop the back flow?

I asked this question of the expensive machined metal clamps that someone here bought. The response was there was a small amount of free play when removing.

The theory is, remove the load on the rams then there “should” be no, or little, back flow in the pump.

My roof, with our current autumn weather/temp, takes about 3 days to sag enough for the canvas to become floppy.

We shall see.

 

[sidepod]

Roof sag - Clamp thingy?

Anyone using these? https://www.buessli-shop.ch/en/products/spanner-aufstelldach-california-ocean?srsltid=AfmBOopDYkqFV-_UM_fHA8uQOibEj9a2cOPmHcO-hDZHeLzuVDl1RaTB

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[KevH]

Well that is precisely what is being tested.
The straps will obviously hold the roof up but will they stop the back flow?

I asked this question of the expensive machined metal clamps that someone here bought. The response was there was a small amount of free play when removing.

The theory is, remove the load on the rams then there “should” be no, or little, back flow in the pump.

My roof, with our current autumn weather/temp, takes about 3 days to sag enough for the canvas to become floppy.

We shall see.

I am watching this with a keen interest. Thanks for sharing.

 

[brcas64]

following, Thanks for sharing.

 

[Betsycalifornia]

Mine sags, has had intermittent auto correction for 2 years, this time away I’ve finally worked out why, I can’t believe it but if I plug my usb lights into the usb socket on the dash by the windscreen (it’s always live) then the auto correct doesn’t work. Lights don’t go out in the roof either. If I remove the lights nothing changes. Once I move on and don’t plug the lights in next stop all is fine. 7 trials and it’s fine now. Plugging lights into a different socket in a few days.

 

[sidepod]

Mine sags, has had intermittent auto correction for 2 years, this time away I’ve finally worked out why, I can’t believe it but if I plug my usb lights into the usb socket on the dash by the windscreen (it’s always live) then the auto correct doesn’t work. Lights don’t go out in the roof either. If I remove the lights nothing changes. Once I move on and don’t plug the lights in next stop all is fine. 7 trials and it’s fine now. Plugging lights into a different socket in a few days.

???? That sounds bizarre.
So are you saying, if you plug something into the dash skt then lower the roof the lights DONT go out at all?

I think we’ve established the 6.1 doesn’t run auto-correct of the roof.

 

[Ryanrunsfar123]

I am watching this with a keen interest. Thanks for sharing.

I've got some clampy things. They're 3D printed plastic rather than metal but they do the job well. I've had them on for 6 days solid, with warm weather in the day and a bit chilly at night. When I took them off there was minimal load on the clamps. The roof doesn't move when I take the clamps off. So I suspect with the clamps taking the load there's not much movement of hydraulic fluid.

 

[sidepod]

I've got some clampy things. They're 3D printed plastic rather than metal but they do the job well. I've had them on for 6 days solid, with warm weather in the day and a bit chilly at night. When I took them off there was minimal load on the clamps. The roof doesn't move when I take the clamps off. So I suspect with the clamps taking the load there's not much movement of hydraulic fluid.

What material did you use?

 

[sidepod]

Interesting read here. T7 Roof Self Study.

 

[Up10]

Interesting read here. T7 Roof Self Study.
View attachment 141387View attachment 141388

That's interesting! Almost as though VW realised there might have been an issue with the previous design on the 6.1. I don't think they want to admit that from some of the posts I have read on this forum!

 

[sidepod]

That's interesting! Almost as though VW realised there might have been an issue with the previous design on the 6.1. I don't think they want to admit that from some of the posts I have read on this forum!

Exactly. Could be worth noting if trying to get VW to take the problem seriously although, I doubt that.

It would be good to know if the pumps are interchangeable?
More digging.

 

[Emil Silenhag]

How easy is it to remove the item if the Hydraulic pressure drops on that side, but the roof is prevented from sagging by the item/ lock.

You can just raise the roof before loosening the strap or whatever you have to support the roof. This will take the load of the item…Done that for a long time…

 

[WelshGas]

You can just raise the roof before loosening the strap or whatever you have to support the roof. This will take the load of the item…Done that for a long time…

Or just raise the roof once a day if you notice any sagging.

 

[Emil Silenhag]

Or just raise the roof once a day if you notice any sagging.

Yes, if you are present or if it’s possible. I support the roof while repairing it. Or occasionally when Ieave the car for several days hiking in the mountains..

 

[sidepod]

Or just raise the roof once a day if you notice any sagging.

Well yes but that’s not really the point!

 

[RockinNRollin]

I find the problem is if we have the insulated wrap on (which historically has also been on to combat leaking); sag then causes the wrap to end up trying to support the roof. You can’t raise the roof unless it’s dropped a good 3-4” or so I find, which isn’t possible to do with a wrap on. My is a MY23 and does autocorrect the roof if allowed to sag though but has to drop a fair bit before it does.

I see two ways to resolve this in a DIY fashion, as mentioned either in this thread or elsewhere in the forum;

1) mechanically prevent the sagging (as above)

2) prevent the hydraulic fluid getting too warm (on the basis reduced viscosity allows it to pass the seals more easily and/or as a result of expansion when warmed) - I’ve seen a solution on here covering part of the system with a white gutter type panel, but potentially if the components are visible a mockup could be done using tin foil and if it works, foil tape?

 

[sidepod]

I’m not sure what you’re describing in point 2?

 

[WelshGas]

I’m not sure what you’re describing in point 2?

Covering the Hydraulic rams with a heat reflective/insulating cover to stop the Hydraulic oil heating up, thus increasing the pressure and the excess pressure bleeding off, so that when the temperature drops the Hydraulic pressure drops as does the roof. Depending of course if this is the actual cause of the sag.

 

[KevH]

Interesting read here. T7 Roof Self Study.
View attachment 141387View attachment 141388

My interpretation of this is that it explicitly points the finger at the valves as being the main cause if sags in pre-New California models (I can’t bear to call them T7s).
I would dearly like to challenge my dealer on this point were it not for the fact they could never replicate a sag when they had my van in their workshop.

 

[KevH]

???? That sounds bizarre.
So are you saying, if you plug something into the dash skt then lower the roof the lights DONT go out at all?

I think we’ve established the 6.1 doesn’t run auto-correct of the roof.

This is indeed bizarre.
I read it out loud to my missus who asked the relevance of the sockets being live. My thinking was that it may be something to do with the ignition needing to be on to raise and lower the roof.
Aha, says the missus, so how does the autocorrect work when the ignition is off? I’ve no idea.

 

[sidepod]

Covering the Hydraulic rams with a heat reflective/insulating cover to stop the Hydraulic oil heating up, thus increasing the pressure and the excess pressure bleeding off, so that when the temperature drops the Hydraulic pressure drops as does the roof. Depending of course if this is the actual cause of the sag.

Hmmm. We spent 10 days over Christmas last year with the roof up in Austria. Temp range from -5 during the day to -13 at night.
We suffered sag.
I’m not convinced it’s temp related unless it’s internal temperature from the heater.